Danbooru

Tagging children from "Touhou - Boys and Girls (kyouno)"

Posted under General

pool #691 currently has 74 posts, and the children all have their own names. Is it worth making an exception to the usual ParentA+ParentB+if_they_mated and going with just ChildA+if_they_mated (e.g. iris_(kyouno)) instead? Doing both would just be too much.

And if the latter: The pool description says Fuuko and Shamoji were created by different artists, but there's only one non-kyouno Fuuko on Danbooru; do we go with kyouno or the "origin" artists for the qualifier? And would it be Xiao, Xiaoling, or Shourei for that one kid?

Updated by jxh2154

RaisingK said:
And would it be Xiao, Xiaoling, or Shourei for that one kid?

Considering we refer to said kid's mother as Hong Meiling, rather than Hon Meirin, for the reading of 紅 美鈴 (ホン・メイリン), the romanization ought to default to the Chinese reading, rather than the Japanese approximation of it. Thus, Xiaoling.

edit: Also, as the furigana in one panel on the left column of post #448283 show, the kana approximation would read as "Shourin", rather than "Shourei".

sgcdonmai said:
edit: Also, as the furigana in one panel on the left column of post #448283 show, the kana approximation would read as "Shourin", rather than "Shourei".

There's another instance where kyouno wrote it as Shourei, so you can't definitively say it's one way or the other without confirmation.

sgcdonmai said:
Considering we refer to said kid's mother as Hong Meiling, rather than Hon Meirin, for the reading of 紅 美鈴 (ホン・メイリン), the romanization ought to default to the Chinese reading, rather than the Japanese approximation of it. Thus, Xiaoling.

It'd feel strange tagging him Xiaoling when almost all the notes/comments use Shourei, though.

And I noticed that the issue of tagging the children instead of the parents was brought up five months ago in post #800118.

Do we not have a Danbooru policy on Chinese romanization? I could have sworn I'd seen one somewhere before.

At any rate, I don't see any reason not to always use the pinyin romanization for cases like these. Romanizing the Japanese sinicization basically amounts to translating a translation. And really, the notes should be changed and warnings added to howto:translate and howto:romanize to set it in stone.

glasnost said:
At any rate, I don't see any reason not to always use the pinyin romanization for cases like these. Romanizing the Japanese sinicization basically amounts to translating a translation.

That's basically how I see it.

RaisingK said:
It'd feel strange tagging him Xiaoling when almost all the notes/comments use Shourei, though.

I don't think it's any different than things that end up changed via aliasing, though.

If everyone else who cares wants Xiaoling, then fine, we'll roll with it.

So, qualifiers for everyone, for consistency if nothing else. Fuuko and Shamoji can have the "kyouno" qualifier, since there's only one non-kyouno post (post #377979). I guess we'll leave the tags for that post as they are. And no tagging the parents for posts in this pool unless they actually appear themselves. Does all that sound right?

Their appearances may have been inspired by other artists, but Kyouno's the one developing them as characters and putting them in all these different posts. These tags would be for Kyouno's versions only.

I can't even find any Shamoji done by Murata, on here or Pixiv, and their art is much worse anyway. And as said earlier, there's only one other Fuuko.

Updated

Shamoji.

Fine, maybe in the case of Shamoji, but I still don't like Fuuko_(kyouno). Just one image here... and the apparent original on which everything was based, at that, is enough reason.

It also doesn't matter to me that they're much worse or Kyouno did it better. Both Fuuko and Shamoji have had little to no alterations to their original design. If not in personality, then in looks they're still very much tsk and Murata's... not Kyouno's. And that should take precedence on an art site like Danbooru, especially where the concern is grouping like pictures together and proper tagging and searching.

Finally, though I've seen some here disagree on the stance, I also don't particularly care about what's here in relation to Pixiv or is better for Danbooru. Though, since no other Shamojis are here, then I may at least be able to concede on that.

ShadowbladeEdge said:
I disagree with this, as anyone searching for hong_meilng izayoi_sakuya if_they_mated would want to see Xiaoling and Akari.

I wanted to avoid cluttering up the tag list with both parent and child tags, though... Perhaps we could make a wiki listing of all such children that have their own tags, similar to original and list of original characters.

Are there any other examples of "if" children getting their own tags?

Updated

Anelaid said:
They could use the appropriate character tags now.

This assumes that everyone knows about the characters in kyouno's series, which I'd wager is not the case. If I were searching for China/Pad and if_they_mated without any prior knowledge of kyouno's series, I know I'd appreciate seeing the comics in the results.

+1 to leaving the parents and if_they_mated in.

recklessfirex said:
+1 to leaving the parents and if_they_mated in.

Once you have several children in a post, who is paired with who gets all mixed up anyway. Would you have us tag parents and children, or just give up on the idea of tagging the children? Or would my above idea of listing such children in a wiki page satisfy you?

UnderneathTheWaves said:
Fine, maybe in the case of Shamoji, but I still don't like Fuuko_(kyouno). Just one image here... and the apparent original on which everything was based, at that, is enough reason.

The tags are for Kyouno's depictions. We don't have to stick other artists' names all through Kyouno's posts just because they mashed certain Touhou characters together "first". We can make a note in the wiki pages about the design origin ("maybe" indeed for Shamoji). It isn't like they're doing any shared development with them.

The artists' names aren't comfortably fixed, either. The current Murata tag--murata_(kendou)--is the result of a merge I recently did between two other tags: odoru and murata_(pixiv52761). I've created two other "inspiration" artist entries, and their names aren't very satisfactory either. Keeping it "_(kendou)" simplifies things. Fewer artists we have to worry about getting renamed.

Updated

RaisingK said:
Once you have several children in a post, who is paired with who gets all mixed up anyway. Would you have us tag parents and children, or just give up on the idea of tagging the children? Or would my above idea of listing such children in a wiki page satisfy you?
The tags are for Kyouno's depictions. We don't have to stick other artists' names all through Kyouno's posts just because they mashed certain Touhou characters together "first". We can make a note in the wiki pages about the design origin ("maybe" indeed for Shamoji). It isn't like they're doing any shared development with them.

I actually think the wiki idea is much better and more efficient. The problem lies in whether or not people will know of its existence and/or how to check for it, which could potentially cause them to miss out on kyouno's material.

Having cluttered tags is pretty bad, but I think it beats having people miss out on kyouno's works if they're searching for "if_they_mated" plus a combo of touhou characters.

On the other hand, if the majority of danbooru feels that it's the reader's responsibility to check wikis or else they're just SOL, then either way works for me. My opinion was just based on the situation where, had I not known about kyouno, I would definitely have loved to see his stuff in the results if I'd searched for "hong_meiling izayoi_sakuya if_they_mated".

A wiki list for children linked from the pool's description and the tag's wiki is easy enough to find, but even then it's much quicker and simpler to search for if_they_mated + <parent_name>.
Plus it's more likely to be what you're looking for in the first place, rather than a particular original character.

It can't hurt to have both I think: the wiki list and the parents' names in the posts.

1 2