Danbooru

Own hand together tag wtf

Posted under General

S1eth said:

Appears to be a copy of hands_together.

No, it's not. Own hands together is for what it sounds like.

Hands together says:

For when characters have their own hands together or are holding the hand(s) of other characters, without the fingers being interlocked.

Hands clasped says:

Having both of one's own hands together, with fingers interlaced.

Own_hands_together can be used to find characters with their own hands together, regardless of whether the fingers are interlaced or not.

clasped_hands is own_hands_together with interlocked_fingers. Can we just throw own_hands_together away? Nobody is going to distinguish it anyway, and people will tag posts with interlocked fingers as own_hands_together. Is it really that crucial to have like 6 tags for same hand position?

We have:
symmetrical_hand_pose, which is used for different characters
praying , which I used for one character before I knew there was a clasped_hands, lol
hands_together - it is supposed to be for cases when hands are touching but not holding. We can use it only for single character since we already have symmetrical_hand_pose and holding_hands
own_hands_together - throw it away, this tag is just awkward.
interlocked_fingers, which is used for different characters
clasped_hands is supposed to be used for single characters
holding_hands as general

So I suggest this:
one character fingers not interlocked - hands_together
one character fingers interlocked - clasped_hands
two characters fingers not interlocked - holding_hands symmetrical_hand_pose if appropriate. I don't believe someone would really search for that. If they do, they can do just -interlocked_fingers
two characters fingers interlocked - holding_hands interlocked_fingers

Fix
Oh wow, symmetrical_hand_pose is tagged with interlocked_fingers too. Well, I still say we do not need to distinguish it.
Also, I believe that's the way it was before the wiki was changed.

MagicalAsparagus said:

hands_together - it is supposed to be for cases when hands are touching but not holding.

That's what the wiki says, but the name seems misleading. "Hands together" could mean two characters, one character, interlocked fingers, or no interlocked fingers. It's just too vague.

MagicalAsparagus said:

own_hands_together - throw it away, this tag is just awkward.

I still don't see why we would prefer hands together over own hands together; I don't think the added clarity would hurt anything. Could you explain what's awkward about it?

(Also, why would we throw it away? Shouldn't we move or alias it if we're not going to use it?)

MagicalAsparagus said:

So I suggest this:
one character fingers not interlocked - hands_together
one character fingers interlocked - clasped_hands
two characters fingers not interlocked - holding_hands symmetrical_hand_pose if appropriate. I don't believe someone would really search for that. If they do, they can do just -interlocked_fingers
two characters fingers interlocked - holding_hands interlocked_fingers

I suggest this:

We can combine hands clasped and interlocked fingers into one tag like that. That reduces the confusing number of these tags (we only need three instead of 5-6), but still allows for searching all possibilities by using 2 tag searches.

Furthermore, the current definition of interlocked fingers is misleading - the name sounds like it could be used for one character, but that's actually hands clasped; interlocked fingers is only for two characters. (Note that you also used the word "interlocked" to describe single characters.) By using interlocked fingers for both, we reduce the confusion and help to eliminate the significant portion of posts currently mistagged as interlocked fingers (here are some of them: interlocked_fingers solo).

As far as symmetrical hand pose, it seems to be a subset of holding hands. We can't use it for "two characters, fingers interlocked", because it is used regardless of whether the fingers are interlocked.

I think this suggestion would be the most intuitive way of handling it, without sacrificing any search accuracy.

Updated

This is really counter-intuitive. We can simply remove the interlocked fingers part from hands_clasped wiki and just use interlocked_fingers additionally when it should be used.

That saying I use interlocked_fingers for single characters since... well, since I'm here. It seemed the perfectly logical thing to do, I admit not having looked at that wiki page even once.
Same for hands_clasped, I always used that one fingers locked or not and only noticed hands_together right now.

I don't think we need to have that many tags for such a simple concept since interlocked_fingers & holding_hands show several characters doing that just fine and with hands_clasped it brings up single characters.

Aliasing own_hands_together to hands_clasped and editing the wiki pages for hands_clasped and interlocked_fingers to include single persons would enable us to get rid of own_hands_together without really missing anything.

Toks said:
Could you explain what's awkward about it?

Well, if there is no longer hands_together why need own_hands_together? We have this "own" part addition when there is a pair with similar name, like hands_on_chest hands_on_own_chest.

Schrobby said:

We can simply remove the interlocked fingers part from hands_clasped wiki and just use interlocked_fingers additionally when it should be used.

I just don't get the meaning of the word "clasped" correctly then. Doesn't it imply interlocking one's fingers?
Otherwise I suggest we do what Schrobby says. Looks fairly logical.

Schrobby said:

Aliasing own_hands_together to hands_clasped and editing the wiki pages for hands_clasped and interlocked_fingers to include single persons would enable us to get rid of own_hands_together without really missing anything.

Shouldn't hands_clasped be aliased to interlocked_fingers if the latter is going to encompass both of their current definitions? Otherwise we will need to manually tag the 2500+ posts under hands_clasped with interlocked_fingers. But that doesn't seem like a good idea, as the people who have been using hands_clasped might not know to switch to interlocked_fingers.

MagicalAsparagus said:

I just don't get the meaning of the word "clasped" correctly then. Doesn't it imply interlocking one's fingers?

I think it does. So we won't need hands_clasped if interlocked_fingers is used for both like I suggested.

MagicalAsparagus said:

Well, if there is no longer hands_together why need own_hands_together? We have this "own" part addition when there is a pair with similar name, like hands_on_chest hands_on_own_chest.

Sorry, I'm not completely sure I understood you.

But the tags hands_on_chest and hands_on_own_chest seem to support my idea. The former isn't well-used at all (29 posts). The latter is more specific and includes the word "own", and is the one that is used (1000+ posts). That's similar to how I don't think hands_together should be used, as it's vague, but own_hands_together should be used.

So, you want hands_clasped to be used both with single and multiple characters? Well okay, then let's do the alias. I suggest that clasped_hands would be shown as interlocked_fingers in the post tag list.
Oh derp, you have already said that.

Toks said:

But that doesn't seem like a good idea, as the people who have been using hands_clasped might not know to switch to interlocked_fingers.

Why? If we alias it, whether they use interlocked_fingers or clasped_hands the result will be interlocked_fingers. And if they wonder what happened to clasped_hands they will read the wiki, right?

Actually, I just noticed that the current wiki definition of interlocked fingers actually does include both one and two characters like I suggested. But it wasn't like this when I last read it - it was changed without discussion.

In this case, I still think hands clasped should be aliased to interlocked fingers (as there are thousands of hands_clasped posts that should fit under interlocked_fingers), and we should use interlocked_fingers own_hands_together for what hands clasped is currently used for.

MagicalAsparagus said:

So, you want hands_clasped to be used both with single and multiple characters? Well okay, then let's do the alias. I suggest that clasped_hands would be shown as interlocked_fingers in the post tag list.
Oh derp, you have already said that.

I never said hands_clasped should be used for one and two characters. I said hands_clasped shouldn't be used at all. Interlocked_fingers should be used for both one and two characters. We should alias hands_clasped to interlocked_fingers to accomplish that.

MagicalAsparagus said:

Why? If we alias it, whether they use interlocked_fingers or clasped_hands the result will be interlocked_fingers.

That only happens if we alias hands_clasped to interlocked_fingers. That's why I was saying we should alias it.

MagicalAsparagus said:

Well yeah, I'm a bit slow. So what do we do now? There are only three people discussing things, can we really decide?

We should probably wait for other people to give their opinion.

Toks said:
But the tags hands_on_chest and hands_on_own_chest seem to support my idea. The former isn't well-used at all (29 posts). The latter is more specific and includes the word "own", and is the one that is used (1000+ posts). That's similar to how I don't think hands_together should be used, as it's vague, but own_hands_together should be used.

Eh, hands_ON_chest doesn't exist as a tag. It was aliased to hands_on_another's_chest.
And hands_TO_chest was aliased to hands_on_own_chest.

I have also been using interlocked_fingers for solo and multiple character images. (but also in addition to hands_clasped simply because it exists).
I see hands_together as an umbrella for any kind of position in which one of your hands touches the other, such as many v_arms situations.

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