Posted under General
magcolo said:
But if it's, say, a single character with just slight cleavage standing in a 6+character environment, most people won't yell at you for rating that general (e.g. post #5342031, you won't even notice that the red hair with cat ears has cleavage until you try to look for it).
Though I dont want to ruin your example, that pantyshot on the main girl is a bit more noticeable and "sensitive".
sadodere said:
1) post #5475472 - Oh no, it's a crop top! Doubt payment processors will care in this example, right? I'll go further, then:
It’s also see-through at the bottom and shows underboob.
2) post #5475335 - How is this sensitive in any way? The focus isn't on the cleavage, right? It's a girl with twintails in a dress fully clothed winking. Is it the weapon she's holding?
Skin-tight top and skimpy skirt. It’s a borderline case and the guideline say to err on the side of caution, i.e., sensitive.
3) post #5475160 - How is this sensitive either? Is it the dress? She's fully clothed, though...
Low-cut décolleté, skin-tight all the way to the bottom.
Oh! And for some reason, I believe "yaoi" is also tagged as "sensitive"? For some posts it makes sense, but having it default to adding a sensitive tag?
Yaoi or yuri by itself shouldn’t be a reason for a sensitive rating. Maybe you’re reading too much into it because of your objections to the sensitive rating in general.
4) post #5472128 - How is this sensitive at all? It's an innocent gesture, right? Nothing sexy here.
“Mild sexual contact (ear biting, […])” is questionable according to the guidelines. Cheek biting in this image, with a heart even, would be covered by that, so one could argue that it should actually be rated questionable. We’re being lenient here with a sensitive rating because it looks pretty innocent, as you said.
5) post #5468186 - And how is this sensitive? Is it crossdressing that's made the payment processors so pissy? They're fully clothed doing a normal gesture.
Not everything is rated perfectly. You’ll easily be able to find incorrectly rated images to “prove” your point. I changed it to general. Someone correct me if I missed something.
Misrated, see above.
Sideboob, high-cut dress. Yuri has nothing to do with it.
5 out of 7 rated correctly is a pretty good quota, actually, considering that this sample set wasn’t random but rather hand-picked to be contentious.
Going by your examples, you seem to have missed a few things that unambiguously put the posts in the sensitive category, like the see-through crop top showing underboob or the low/high-cut dresses. Before complaining about the ratings, please try to look more attentively first. If you still can’t figure out why a post is rated sensitive, feel free to ask in topic #8495.
Now, again, I have no intention of arguing. This system still has many flaws that I hope to see improve over time. I know there's no point in trying to change people's minds because, at the end of the day, we all know that won't happen - but there are some flaws that need to be addressed here. I understand why the change was made, as I have said many times before, but there's something so weird about associating anime with modesty of all things.
If that’s your hope, give up. Looking back, the ratings tend to only deteriorate over time if they’re not enforced properly. The old “safe” rating was originally intended to be used similarly to the new general rating, but it was watered down so much because there was no rating for “sensitive” content and too many users crammed that into the “safe” rating as well. There will also never be a flawless rating system because there’s too much borderline content and every user has a slightly (or grossly) differing interpretation of the ratings. Aside from that, welcome to donmai.moe, presenting you the innovative world of modest anime. :)
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sadodere said:
Cleavage is tagged as sensitive by default.
If that's all you can say after everything I tried to explain to you. Howto:rate never said this.
sadodere said:
Oh! And for some reason, I believe "yaoi" is also tagged as "sensitive"? For some posts it makes sense, but having it default to adding a sensitive tag?
4) post #5472128 - How is this sensitive at all? It's an innocent gesture, right? Nothing sexy here.
Rating:Questionable
- Mild sexual contact (ear biting, groping, breast grabbing, heavy kissing, etc)
Well this can even be rated q, but since it's not detailed enough people decided to give it a go and only s.
And I agree with what kittey explained to you. You seem to misunderstand the reasons that warrant many posts rating:s, the ones you listed has almost nothing to do with cleavage, yuri and yaoi. And as I said, when it comes to borderlines, it's always better to rate something higher than lower. Or else people will just water down the system and general will ended up nothing different from the old safe rating.
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magcolo said:
If that's all you can say after everything I tried to explain to you. Howto:rate never said this.
Well this can even be rated q, but since it's not detailed enough people decided to give it a go and only s.
And I agree with what kittey explained to you. You seem to misunderstand the reasons that warrant many posts rating:s, the ones you listed has almost nothing to do with cleavage, yuri and yaoi. And as I said, when it comes to borderlines, it's always better to rate something higher than lower. Or else people will just water down the system and general will ended up nothing different from the old safe rating.
I've already said I'm not arguing over this.
Again, I understand why the system was put into place. I have nothing more to say.
And yes, that's "all I can say" after "everything" you explained to me. As a stubborn person myself, I know arguing with other stubborn people will only make arguments never end.
I'll say this one final thing, actually: Just follow the site's rules, and that's what I've been doing. I already said that. At the end of the day, I can argue all I want but we both know that won't change a thing. I feel bad for the admins if anything, there are various features they want to work on but can't because of all this random shit coming up and requiring attention quickly.
The posts I included were tagged sensitive. I went to sensitive, grabbed a few examples, and that's all. :/
sadodere said:
I've already said I'm not arguing over this.
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The posts I included were tagged sensitive. I went to sensitive, grabbed a few examples, and that's all. :/
Yeah but they're sensitive not because of cleavage/yuri/yaoi (what you assumed), and kittey explain why. I don't think there's anything to argue?
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I would love to try to hash out some hard rules with examples on whats G and S. Unfortunately only evazion and maybe NoNameThanks can actually decide where the lines should be drawn and they are a bit busy at the moment. Se topic #21157
Excuse me, how is kissing on the lips e.g. post #5809838 rated G by any prude standard, i.e. on the same level as handholding (not talking about a certain meme, obviously)? Especially how sensual it looks (note I didn't say sexual).
"They're just kiddy frens who saw it in some comics, wedding ceremony, or something."
"It's just a social construct with no actual instinct tying it to sexual activity." Cheek kissing is a social greeting in some cultures, but is lip kissing really seen the same way?
Howto:rate doesn't mention kissing under S at all. Most posts are already tagged S but the current G mention of "kissing that isn't sexually charged" is ambiguous, leading lip kissing to slip through. On a note, french kissing itself isn't Q but may be elevated to Q when accompanied with other things such as nudity or contact like breast grab.
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nanashi3 said:
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Shouldn't that go to the Rating check thread?
magcolo said:
Shouldn't that go to the Rating check thread?
I'm talking about the rating system as a whole rather than a specific post.
If you disagree with a post rating, you’re free to change it. ninja’d
Kissing isn’t mentioned explicitly under S because the “anything not safe enough for G” is meant to cover most situations. Plus, judging G vs. S is very contextual, and it would be hard to write a rule for kissing that would fall under S 100% of the time.
I’m not sure where you got that bit about french kissing from; heavy kissing alone is enough to earn a Q.
Cattywampus said:
Kissing isn’t mentioned explicitly under S because the “anything not safe enough for G” is meant to cover most situations. Plus, judging G vs. S is very contextual, and it would be hard to write a rule for kissing that would fall under S 100% of the time.
I’m not sure where you got that bit about french kissing from; heavy kissing alone is enough to earn a Q.
Yes, heavy kissing is listed under "mild sexual contact" in Q after other examples. french_kiss -nude -rating:e has a 5:4 S:Q split, understandably since the S ones don't look "heavy"; it simply means tongues are [probably] touching. You might not even see a tongue but instead an apparently deeper mouth to mouth as opposed to lips to lips. I don't have issues with the current Q description.
I suppose "anything not safe enough for G" sufficiently covers S, but also we have a Moderator who said "Normal kisses is G, french kisses is S" and pointed to the line saying "Innocent displays of affection[...] kissing that isn't sexually charged" as if it means kissing in general in posts would be G if not for the kiss. Arguably post #4063613 portrays a brief cute scene therefore is G, and post #5433266 depicts a quick surprise off-lip kiss. Contrast with most other posts (benevole does this well) appearing rather intimate or otherwise artistically soft pornier than regular G posts, often with closed eyes.
I would've imagined a toxic purity culture outside of Danbooru that would equate bare legs to unsafe would do so too for lip kissing? Bonus.
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