Alias Final Fantasy VII Rebirth -> Remake

BUR #36270 has been rejected.

remove implication final_fantasy_vii_rebirth -> final_fantasy_vii_remake
create alias final_fantasy_vii_rebirth -> final_fantasy_vii_remake

I'm throwing this out there because it's similar to the Overwatch situation. The remake trilogy is really three parts of the same game than true sequels, and I've been seeing a lot of posts tagged Rebirth when there's no reason to, such as post #8746940 or post #7357980. It would be simpler to consolidate the remake trilogy's characters and designs into a single tag than to split it into two (eventually three).

BUR #36752 has been approved by @evazion.

deprecate final_fantasy_vii_rebirth

Not much feedback here so I'll go ahead and deprecate this now and move forward with the alias later if nobody complains.

The bulk update request #36752 (forum #335492) has been approved by @evazion.

I'm undecided about this. I've raised a similar topic discussing the Rebirth tag.

What if you want to search on events/characters/outfits that are distinct to FFVII Rebirth? The outfits are an easy fix, just follow the specific tag (even then, a congregate tag is useful). But what about events (such as the Skywheel fireworks, or the Aerith pout, or Aerith letting her hair down) or characters that are introduced in Rebirth like Elena, Vincent (design is distinct from other VII), Cid... or even Yuffie's updated Rebirth design (belt + armguard change) or Chadley.

It's not a tragedy, but you do lose some granularity.

After reading your linked thread, that would be the most ideal solution. However, it would require extensive gardening and a creation of a sub-umbrella tag for Remake and Rebirth to go under; this new tag would also cover fringe cases that don't fit into either game. Right now, final fantasy vii remake is doing double duty as both umbrella for the trilogy and its own game entry tag. Maybe final fantasy vii remake trilogy for the umbrella?

I'm not opposed to your solution.

Then this is how I would evaluate FFVII fanart:
--> By default, it has the final_fantasy_vii_remake_trilogy tag if there are no distinguishing features (or you're unsure) and it's just a generic Cloud and a generic Aerith not wearing their standard outfits. I would add this as the default tag instead of only the regular final_fantasy_vii tag, because gradually the updated Remake versions are becoming the default versions that everyone (especially new audiences) have come to known them as. As mentioned, this is also an umbrella tag for Remake and Rebirth.
--> final_fantasy_vii_remake This will be used a lot. By default if you see the Remake crew in their standard outfits it will get this tag, unless the next tag applies. More obvious signs are Tifa with a sports bra or Aerith with 3-colored bangles, etc. Those are Remake-specific design choices. Most of the fanart feature these designs nowadays.
--> final_fantasy_vii There are still quite a few OG design fanart. They are currently correctly labeled without any Remake tag. Aerith has a dress opened from the front with silver bangles, sometimes exaggerated bangs. Tifa has no sports bra, no stockings, not a combat skirt. Yuffie has a green flowing sash-thing. Etc.
--> final_fantasy_vii_rebirth Used for clear Rebirth events, new characters, (updated) outfits.

The umbrella tag is also useful for fanart that depicts characters in their Remake outfits during events that will take place in part 3, such as the Lifestream sequence or Scarlet/Tifa encounter.

Some of the outfits could be explicitly linked to a tag. tifa_lockhart_(shining_spirit) with final_fantasy_vii_rebirth for example.

DrLove said:

--> By default, it has the final_fantasy_vii_remake_trilogy tag if there are no distinguishing features (or you're unsure) and it's just a generic Cloud and a generic Aerith not wearing their standard outfits. I would add this as the default tag instead of only the regular final_fantasy_vii tag, because gradually the updated Remake versions are becoming the default versions that everyone (especially new audiences) have come to known them as. As mentioned, this is also an umbrella tag for Remake and Rebirth.
--> final_fantasy_vii_remake This will be used a lot. By default if you see the Remake crew in their standard outfits it will get this tag, unless the next tag applies. More obvious signs are Tifa with a sports bra or Aerith with 3-colored bangles, etc. Those are Remake-specific design choices. Most of the fanart feature these designs nowadays.

You'll need to define what "generic Cloud " and "generic Aerith" means, because the standard outfits are the new generic within the remake trilogy. Having it continued to be dumped into final_fantasy_vii_remake weakens the case for a new umbrella; you might as well not have it at all if it's going to be the default tag.

What happens when the fanart is ambiguous enough so that you don't know what to count it as. OG FFVII or Remake FFVII.
- No distinguishing design features.
- The date the fanart got posted is after 2020.

post #8823830 <- can't tell. Cloud and Sephiroth in casual outfits. It is a "generic" Cloud and Sephiroth. We recognize the characters but there is nothing defining about them as to which entry they should belong to.
post #8754188 <-- close-up of Cloud's face. Standard outfit sweater. "Generic" Cloud.
post #8791884 <-- Cloud in his sweater, Tifa in a nightgown. Nothing recognizable here.

These cases could be tagged with ffvii and ffvii_remake_trilogy. Or just ffvii. Undecided.

If there are signs pointing towards OG design versions then tag only with ffvii.
If there are signs pointing towards Remake (like Cloud/Tifa hug post #8729720) then tag with ffvii, ffvii_remake_trilogy, ffvii_remake.
If there are signs pointing towards Rebirth (like Cloud/Tifa kiss post #8773386) then tag with ffvii, ffvii_remake_trilogy, ffvii_rebirth.

DrLove said:

What happens when the fanart is ambiguous enough so that you don't know what to count it as. OG FFVII or Remake FFVII.
- No distinguishing design features.
- The date the fanart got posted is after 2020.

post #8823830 <- can't tell. Cloud and Sephiroth in casual outfits. It is a "generic" Cloud and Sephiroth. We recognize the characters but there is nothing defining about them as to which entry they should belong to.
post #8754188 <-- close-up of Cloud's face. Standard outfit sweater. "Generic" Cloud.
post #8791884 <-- Cloud in his sweater, Tifa in a nightgown. Nothing recognizable here.

These cases could be tagged with ffvii and ffvii_remake_trilogy. Or just ffvii. Undecided.

Wearing casual clothes doesn't warrant its own copyright tag.

I'm starting to think this is a bad idea. Despite talk of granularity, people tag basic Tifa and Aerith posts with Rebirth simply because the Pixiv tags say so, diluting the Rebirth tag with noise. It'll get worse with the next game, and we'll eventually get a particularly stupid situation where one post will have three copy tags because reasons.

Might as well go back to consolidation to a single Remake tag for all three games.

Yeah, this is just another case of "new game comes out, everyone tags the new game" regardless of whether it has anything to do with the new game. Many such cases.

It's not about casual clothes. The point was what about when the character doesn't have enough features to strictly point it towards a specific entry, see examples above where Cloud is in his standard outfit sweater. It could be OG Cloud, it could be Remake Cloud. Even in the consolidation-path you still have this issue of differentiating between the two.

More generic examples, it's hardest to differentiate for Cloud and Sephiroth.
post #8824050, post #8478500

And then my suggestion was to assign a tagging behavior for these specific cases. (final_fantasy_vii or final_fantasy_vii / final_fantasy_vii_remake)

For a wide-spanning franchise like FFVII, which has multiple entries, you'll have overlapping of outfits and events (e.g. Nibelheim incident). At this point Nibelheim could be OG, or Remake, or Crisis Core.

The added value of the Rebirth tag is another topic:

The Rebirth tag does get used incorrectly sometimes, which is why I made that Rebirth thread to begin with, but the majority of the tag is tagged correctly. As evazion pointed out, there's a tendency to tag fanart with the most recent entry that came out. As for any tag, it's up to the community to correct it, and not all fanart will be clear-cut either. Rebirth and part 3 are not small games. They have 100s hours of content, with both new outfits and events that users will want to search on. Other games also have their own tag; crisis_core_final_fantasy_vii and dirge_of_cerberus_final_fantasy_vii and before_crisis_final_fantasy_vii, so it's not strange for Rebirth to have its own. So far the Rebirth tag has 3k fanart. Let's say 2/3 is accurate, just a random guess, that's still 2k fanart, a substantial amount.

If you want Rebirth art without a Rebirth tag you'll have to do a search like

final_fantasy_vii_remake and (cloud_strife_(alphreid_costume) or tifa_lockhart_(loveless_dress) or fireworks or (aerith_gainsborough and pout and date:>2024-02-29) or etcetera)

A Rebirth tag is useful because you will get all of this in one tag:
- post #8844881 Aerith in a Shinra Trooper uniform on the Shinra-8
- post #8837091 aerith_gainsborough_(white_floral_dress) and all the other Rebirth-specific outfits (same concept as with final_fantasy_vii_ever_crisis)
- post #8835140 Tifa, Vincent, Cait Sith in one frame. They only met in Rebirth, and the latter two got introduced in Rebirth.
- post #8832400 The ending of Rebirth, leaving Aerith behind.
- post #8828190 Tifa and Red XIII mourning Aerith.
and so on.

If there is no Rebirth tag it's impossible to create a filter search to encompass all these examples accurately without retrieving unrelated fanart.

final_fantasy_vii_remake_trilogy would be an umbrella tag for final_fantasy_vii_remake, final_fantasy_vii_rebirth and unnamed part 3.
This post #8828224 covers an event in part 3 (the Tifa doppelganger). It's not suited for Remake or Rebirth, it would fit under the umbrella tag.
Afterwards you could even search final_fantasy_vii_remake_trilogy -final_fantasy_vii_remake -final_fantasy_vii_rebirth to get any part 3 fanart.

I'll accept your premise only if final_fantasy_vii_remake covers events and details shown during the Midgar Arc, but it's hard to take seriously when you want a basic hug with no background details tagged Remake simply because the outfit was introduced in the first game. Might as well forget the sub-umbrella and continue implicating everything to final_fantasy_vii_remake as we had been doing.

For that specific fanart, Cloud & Tifa hug in FFVII Remake during their optional chapter 13 scene.

As for having the outfit be a signifier, how would you tag this Tifa fanart post #8840316? And this one for Vincent? post #8605489
With the final_fantasy_vii_remake_trilogy premise.

While the discussion is going on I would reverse the deprecation of final_fantasy_vii_rebirth, since new fanart is still being uploaded.

How I'm seeing it is that there are two options.
1. Retain the old system
2. Incorporate the final_fantasy_vii_remake_trilogy tag. (Which is an ongoing discussion (see above) how the exact implementation would look like.)

I'm not in favor of removing/deprecating the final_fantasy_vii_rebirth tag.

A similar use case is final_fantasy_xiii-2 to final_fantasy_xiii (post #8909017). It's the second part in a trilogy, and there Lightning wears a knightly divine armor.

BUR #38166 has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

undeprecate final_fantasy_vii_rebirth
create implication final_fantasy_vii_rebirth -> final_fantasy_vii_remake

Restoring the status quo. Having Remake as its separate tag would be an exercise in futility, judging by this discussion.

The bulk update request #38166 (forum #339780) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.

The bulk update request #36270 (forum #333700) has been rejected by @Hillside_Moose.