Tying Robotech and Voltron to their sources

BUR #40774 is pending approval.

create implication rick_hunter -> ichijou_hikaru
create implication lisa_hayes -> hayase_misa
create implication marlene_(mospeada) -> aisha_(mospeada)
rename marlene_(mospeada) -> marlene_(robotech)
create implication dana_sterling -> jeanne_francaix
create implication rook_bartley -> houquet_et_rose
create implication miriya -> millia_jenius
rename miriya -> miriya_sterling

In topic #30187, it was decided that Power Rangers characters who appear the same as their Super Sentai counterparts either be implied (if there's some element that could differ, appearance-wise), or just directly aliased - and in turn have the latter's copytags be applied on the former when applicable. In that discussion, evazion compared the situation to Robotech, where Robotech is only tagged if it is a clear reference to the Americanization and characters being tagged with both names.

So I wanted to extend what we achieved in that thread to Robotech, as well as Voltron (series), though that'll be its own BUR.

There's actually a lot of characters from Robotech who just use their Japanese names, and just list their Robotech names in their wikis. Since this is for implications and not aliases, someone else can deal with those. Also, oddly enough, my brief glance through the Robotech tag for chartags indicates that there's actually a bunch of mistags where the tag is used on stuff that isn't Robotech, just happens to be Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada. Should deal with that.

BUR #40775 is pending approval.

create implication voltron_(mecha) -> golion_(mecha)
create alias voltron_(mecha) -> lion_voltron

Unless we feel the need to explicitly distinguish the Legendary Defender version of Voltron, we can just do this. Dairugger XV is literally tagged only on one Voltron post, post #5847555, so I think it's safe to specify it's Lion Voltron.

Damian0358 said:

Also, oddly enough, my brief glance through the Robotech tag for chartags indicates that there's actually a bunch of mistags where the tag is used on stuff that isn't Robotech, just happens to be Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada. Should deal with that.

That's a rabbit hole I shouldn't have gone down.

So, we have two interrelated issues. The first is that Kronnang seems to indiscriminately add the Robotech tag if he feels it's appropriate? I can't verify that for certain, but I can confirm that he has gone back to add the tag on posts that may or may not actually count per the clause in its wiki. But part of that may also stem from the second, and honestly, bigger issue, one that I did not see at all when going through Power Rangers.

For some reason, even if the art isn't Robotech, people will tag Robotech for searchability purposes, and this includes Japanese artists. A lot of the posts where Kronnang chose to tag Robotech, at least when I just went through them, had in their sources among their tags Robotech, even if nowhere else suggested any connection to Robotech and only connections to Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada. The posts which had it from Waeba Yuusee are a blatant example on the Japanese end, where the commentary only spoke about Macross and used Macross names, but still had Robotech tagged (same with post #4024350). And several other artists are more ambiguous, like rodypaxten, hielometalico, jeremybrown3d (who is also an example of someone who just uses both Macross and Robotech names in commentaries), etc. It makes trying to untangle things difficult...

I'm honestly of the opinion that it should only be tagged Robotech if the commentary is decisive or it contains Robotech comic-original characters.

Why do we have character subtags? What's the visual difference between voltron (mecha) and golion (mecha)? Why do we need separate tags for the americanized names?

nonamethanks said:

Why do we have character subtags? What's the visual difference between voltron (mecha) and golion (mecha)? Why do we need separate tags for the americanized names?

Currently the only difference would appear to be both tags cover classic Voltron/Goloin (post #5559094) and then whether the tag includes (for the Voltron tag) or excludes (for the Golion tag) Netflix's Legendary Defender version of Voltron (post #3947724).

nonamethanks said:

Why do we have character subtags? What's the visual difference between voltron (mecha) and golion (mecha)? Why do we need separate tags for the americanized names?

I'll be frank, I don't know why they do. I don't know what the visual difference is between Robotech, and Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada, as well as Voltron and GoLion/Dairugger, in so far as its original depictions of the characters it took. I was just trying to adapt the procedure we came up with for Power Rangers for each, but if we would rather just straight-up alias these tags out of existence, I have no issue with that, but we have to be thorough on this.

In terms of characters, we can eliminate Voltron: Legendary Defender, because that's a reboot that already has radically different appearances for its cast compared to OG!Voltron (which is just GoLion/Dairugger), which is why only Voltron is only worth considering. From what I can tell, aside from looking slimmer, the only difference is that, in that show, Voltron's chest piece is more prominently black, due to how Black Lion (that part of the mecha) is designed, while OG!Voltron's Black Lion has an extra red piece. So Legendary Defender shouldn't be an issue.

Robotech chartags though? They just seem to exist, some being as old as 2009/10. The closest thing to actual visual differences are covered by copytags; post #281531 from The Shadow Chronicles gives Ichijou Hikaru's counterpart Rick Hunter a significantly grown-up look - in general, in Robotech's original works, they always have to change the appearances of the characters they took somewhat due to rights reasons. But if we all agree that we should just have these alt-designs tagged with just the original chartags for the characters, then the Robotech chartags would have no use. Note that I've already mentioned that a bunch of Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada chartags don't have Robotech chartag counterparts already and just list it in their wikis (ex. Bruno J. Global), and OG!Voltron seems to avoid having unique chartags to avoid confusion with Legendary Defender, so it just has the GoLion chartags.

BUR #41570 is pending approval.

create alias rick_hunter -> ichijou_hikaru
create alias lisa_hayes -> hayase_misa
rename marlene_(mospeada) -> marlene_(robotech)
create alias marlene_(robotech) -> aisha_(mospeada)
create alias dana_sterling -> jeanne_francaix
create alias rook_bartley -> houquet_et_rose
rename miriya -> miriya_sterling
create alias miriya_sterling -> millia_jenius

Alternate BUR aliasing the Robotech chartags out of existence.

BUR #41571 is pending approval.

rename voltron_(mecha) -> lion_voltron
create alias lion_voltron -> golion_(mecha)
create alias vehicle_voltron -> dairugger_xv_(mecha)

Alternate BUR aliasing the Voltron mecha tag out of existence.

Can use these to compare the difference between the Netflix Voltron and OG Golion based on their depiction from their own works. Should note the Voltron from Legendary Defender is also called Voltron in Japanese (ヴォルトロン Vu~orutoron).

Netflix/DreamWorks' Voltron

Golion

BUR #41581 is pending approval.

mass update voltron_(mecha) voltron:_legendary_defender -> -voltron_(mecha) char:voltron_(legendary_defender)
rename voltron_(mecha) -> lion_voltron
create alias lion_voltron -> golion_(mecha)
create alias vehicle_voltron -> dairugger_xv_(mecha)

Second alternate BUR per GreyOmega's opinion, where we get rid of the overarching Voltron chartag, but in the process give Legendary Defender's version of the mech its own tag. I personally don't think it is different enough to warrant this, but if we keep hard separation between Legendary Defender's versions of characters from OG Voltron, then I guess it makes sense in that regard.