Posted under Tags
artist #542547 is all three, according to their linktree. They're tagged as hellicava_(voice_actor), but... Are we supposed to not tag this entry if we upload their art or cosplay? Should the qualifier encompass all three activities? Is the qualifier necessary?
Artist maenchu has created several animations and also voiced them themselves.
I'd say that if an voice actor also makes art, then they are just a normal artist. Just removing the qualifier would be my vote.
Regarding cosplay; Cosplaying is an artform in itself. So just using the same tag should honestly be sufficient.
People can then finetune by searching either hellicava cosplay_photo or hellicava -cosplay_photo
I've seen some folks attempt to force an artist tag split between actual art and voice acting, like Takahashi Rie (artist) and Takahashi Rie (voice actor), but that's not a common practice. I even tried to combine one such pair of tags into one, only for that change to be reverted later.
If they're only voicing their own animations then I don't see why there would be any need to separate them. But I doubt people searching for art by a specific artist would be looking for animations drawn by someone completely different that happen to be voiced by the person they were searching for. That's just theoretical though, I don't know if that really happens at least within the scope of danbooru uploads
Artists that do both voice acting and drawing should be split into two different tags, otherwise it's impossible to separately search for one or the other. If someone makes popular 3d animations while also doing voice acting, it's very unlikely that an user searching for one also wants to see other at the same time.
To bring this to its most absurd case: we don't add vtubers' artist tags on animated posts containing their voices.
Damian0358 said:
Technically, we do.
Then what we're doing is stupid. If I search for ninomae_ina'nis_(artist)'s drawings that doesn't mean I also want to see some random artist's video with her voice on top.
I think CVs should not be tagged when any of their character tags or parodied characters' copyright tags are used on the post (because of a parody like a scene recreation using that character's voice).
Theoretical examples:
1. Re:Zero post that borrows Emilia (Re:Zero) audio from a scene, voiced by Takahashi Rie, her voice actor: Tag Re:Zero and Emilia. Why? Emilia is voiced by her CV. No point in tagging every time Emilia is Emilia.
2. Re:Zero scene parody using characters and environments from a different copyright. Tag only Re:Zero and the new copyright/characters (not Emilia). Why? It's a Re:Zero scene with its voices but there's no Emilia.
3. Official Re:Zero CM (commercial) where Takahashi Rie is voicing Emilia in-character but Emilia does not visually appear. Tag Re:Zero and Emilia. Why? Same as (1). Emilia doesn't 'appear' but she's off-screen, in-character.
4. Re:Zero post where Emilia's moans are actually from another character she voiced, such as Hoshino Ai: Only Re:Zero and Emilia; not the other character/copyright. Why? A normal person can't tell the difference. It sounds like Takahashi Rie moaning in-character as the character that's being shown, Emilia. Only add another character and copyright tag if it clearly doesn't sound like Emilia in-character, like if it's using audio from the time she voiced a pheasant in PreCure.
5. Any post that is using Takahashi Rie's voice out-of-character: tag Takahashi Rie (voice)
6. Any post that you can't realistically tell which Takahashi Rie copyright/character the audio is from: tag Takahashi Rie (voice)
7. Any post that is using an AI-generated Takahashi Rie voice: tag Takahashi Rie (voice)?? You probably won't be able to tell anyway.
However, some of these conflict with "you should be able to easily search for PICTURES of Emilia with a tag, without getting voice-only posts" and "you should be able to easy search for ALL VOICE ACTING by Takahashi Rie with a tag". But it also begs the question: why shouldn't you be able to search for in-character voices too? Why not have emilia (re:zero) (voice) as a character tag? Takahashi Rie's Emilia voice sounds way different from her Megumin, Ai, Takagi-san, guild receptionist, and PreCure pheasant voices. We could separate them, but that's quite the scope creep.
Unrelated: I also think the qualifier (voice actor) on industry CVs is bad because takahashi rie is equally (voice actor). If takahashi rie (voice actor) stays, it should just be takahashi rie (voice).
Updated by LQ
LQ said:
Unrelated: I also think the qualifier (voice actor) on industry CVs is bad because takahashi rie is equally (voice actor). If takahashi rie (voice actor) stays, it should just be takahashi rie (voice).
That wouldn't match up in consistency with all the other (voice_actor) qualified artist tags as established in topic #18718, and at this point I think the number of (voice_actor) arttags outnumbers the number of (voice_actor) chartags.
Additionally, Takahashi Rie actually describes at least two things: posts that have Takahashi Rie, the real life CV, and voice actor connection posts that don't depict the person at all. So there should also be a takahashi rie (topic) general tag for most of these posts, else you can't actually search for what you want. post #7270696 is basically the only takahashi rie tag that actually has the real life CV.
touyama nao is a better example. touyama_nao chartags:1 reveals 7 solo posts that depict the actual CV. There are a few other real life posts where she is also depicted with other CVs. Some are tagged wrong. There are also posts where she and her CV idol group are cosplaying as their characters. Or the characters appear along with their CVs. There are also solo and group posts where the character she voices is dressed in her idol group's uniform like post #6287225 (does this count as touyama nao (cosplay) too? maybe; I didn't think to tag it). There are posts that are only tagged Touyama Nao because they're celebrating the CV's birthday, but it's just a drawing of her character.
This all makes it very hard to find posts that are actually of Touyama Nao. It may be best to keep it simple and separate it so you can find what you're searching for. It's easier to tag that way. I think this makes a lot of sense for the CV char tags and (proposed) CV gen tag.
For tagging literally every instance of takahashi rie's voice with Takahashi Rie (voice) it would greatly simplify tagging and searching, even if it feels excessive. Ultimately, it is not really that big of a deal, because the vast majority of posts do not have sound. There are tens of thousands of posts depicting characters that Takahashi Rie voices but only dozens where her voice is actually present. So we could just tag them all.
When you consider ALL posts that feature an industry CV's voice, it seems like it's much more of a tag bloat. But there are probably only thousands of posts that would "need" an audio tag added (it's fine if it's missed, really, just a nice courtesy), and that's just because there's a backlog of posts that haven't gotten the treatment. It is not that annoying to see two artist tags on a post with audible dialogue, and it would have a practical purpose. The post has audio, so you might be curious of hearing more audio of the character. Or you just want to know whose voice it is. Saves you the step of looking it up, and CV isn't always mentioned in the post/commentary (it's often written in kanji and may have to be OCR'd, anyway).
I could go either way, really: having confusing guidelines like my 7 examples, or just keeping it simple and tagging what you see and what you hear, absolutely every time. The former is cleaner but confusing to tag; the latter is more useful to users and simple to tag.
Damian0358 said:
That wouldn't match up in consistency with all the other
(voice_actor)qualified artist tags as established in topic #18718, and at this point I think the number of(voice_actor)arttags outnumbers the number of(voice_actor)chartags.
Yes, but it falls apart when the voice actor has a public image you can draw. Perhaps all the voice actor chartags (both qualified and unqualified) should be qualified with something like (character), (person), or (real life). Messy to have qualifiers everywhere (and most characters are not qualified), but practical. It also doesn't really need a qualifier if they don't have any other tags. Or all the (voice actor) tags could be changed to (voice).
LQ said:
Yes, but it falls apart when the voice actor has a public image you can draw. Perhaps all the voice actor chartags (both qualified and unqualified) should be qualified with something like (character), (person), or (real life). Messy to have qualifiers everywhere (and most characters are not qualified), but practical. It also doesn't really need a qualifier if they don't have any other tags. Or all the (voice actor) tags could be changed to (voice).
Well, I guess now is as good a time as any to deal with that, if we're going to start enforcing arttag splits.
LQ said:
Additionally, Takahashi Rie actually describes at least two things: posts that have Takahashi Rie, the real life CV, and voice actor connection posts that don't depict the person at all. So there should also be a takahashi rie (topic) general tag for most of these posts, else you can't actually search for what you want. post #7270696 is basically the only takahashi rie tag that actually has the real life CV.
This reminds me of topic #26591 and topic #29757, where the In Memoriam pool inspired discussion of a similar topic-qualified tag system being introduced.
Good memory! Although I'm against "person (in memoriam)" and said "just add real life to voice actor connection posts when the person actually appears", I'm totally on-board with a catch-all "person (topic)" for each person.
Related but I've been thinking of how to tag posts with audio that includes Vocaloid/vocal synth clips but not necessarily any actual visual depictions of said character. Depending on how this is resolved, I was thinking of creating something like a Hatsune Miku (voicebank) tag for posts where her voice is used, though I don't know whether it should be an artist tag like with other voice actors, or a character tag.
luntoer said:
Related but I've been thinking of how to tag posts with audio that includes Vocaloid/vocal synth clips but not necessarily any actual visual depictions of said character. Depending on how this is resolved, I was thinking of creating something like a Hatsune Miku (voicebank) tag for posts where her voice is used, though I don't know whether it should be an artist tag like with other voice actors, or a character tag.
Well, if we'd want to be consistent, it'd be hatsune_miku_(voice_actor) and an artist tag, at least as things are right now. If LQ gets his way, you'd go with hatsune_miku_(voice) instead.
