Create tag for Tifa Lockhart's original default costume

Famous gacha character Tifa Lockhart has 14k posts, and outfit tags for Ever Crisis, Rebirth, even her Remake dresses, and a few bonuses.

The designs of the core cast of FFVII didn't change that much from FFVII to FFVIIR. Except Tifa. The thighhighs are the most obvious change, then the sports bra, but the skirt is completely different in style and with it the belt and suspenders, with the sometimes visible bike shorts, and her usual red gloves are now black and metal, with the changed armguard taking up her entire forearm. Everything's different. The tank has a different neckline and the boots aren't the same. And Tifa's hair originally tied to a dolphin tail.

Original (Dissidia 012)

Remake

Artist comparison. Though wrong neckline. Tifa doesn't show cleavage but all arts and cosplays mysteriously do

Normally Danbooru doesn't tag base outfits, because of their ubiquity. And base outfits introduced in separate copyrights don't get tagged because they can be isolated with the copyright.

And naturally the most popular depiction of Tifa pre-Remake was Classic Tifa. But Remake has become Tifa's new main design. And there's no copyright for OG FFVII. So if you want classic Tifa you'll get a few posts per page if you're lucky, at least for the first 569 pages.

The recommendation might be to subtract Remake, but that still means Ever Crisis remains. And there's plenty of Classic Tifas tagged with Remake because they employ Remake's graphic style (e.g. Remake Tifa face model), or Classic Tifa features with Remake Tifa, or they deliberately mix elements of both designs, or there's other Remake elements in the post (post #7582496), or maybe some people overtagged to be safe.

BUR #49895 is pending approval.

mass update favgroup:48332 -> character:tifa_lockhart_(classic_outfit)
create implication tifa_lockhart_(classic_outfit) -> tifa_lockhart

I considered "tifa lockhart (classic)", but I didn't want to give people an excuse to tag post #8903071 and not post #5268401

"outfit" over "costume" just because Ever Crisis skin names have used the former but never the latter. A number of Tifa (and other) outfits use "style", but "classic style" has the same issue where it can seem to refer to things other than the outfit.

Dissidia NT calls the base outfit "AVALANCHE Garb". Any outfit name used for classic or remake Tifa when the other one isn't present is worthless because the name will make sense for either. Brave Exvius's Remake version was called "Avalanche's Tifa", like the other Remake promo Avalanche members.

Spatula22 said:

And naturally the most popular depiction of Tifa pre-Remake was Classic Tifa. But Remake has become Tifa's new main design. And there's no copyright for OG FFVII. So if you want classic Tifa you'll get a few posts per page if you're lucky, at least for the first 569 pages.

Honestly, we should've made an OG FF7 tag as far back as Advent Children, but final_fantasy_vii was semi-functional as both the base game and umbrella tag back then. Clearly, it no longer works with Remake in tow.

Like you said, it's not just Tifa that received updates to their wardrobes, though she is the most obvious. I'm debating if it would be better to make a final_fantasy_vii_(classic) or final_fantasy_vii_(1997) tag instead, so it covers all outfits, not just Tifa. It would also cover the OG's story scenarios, since many plot points were changed between it and Remake.

Both would be ideal.

Like I've split Tifa's base design into Classic and Remake because I think there's a clear divide. But character designs tend to make small changes with every appearance. I don't think every post in favgroup #48332 should have Final Fantasy VII (1997) when many posts are based on her Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy appearance.

Would every Remake Cait Sith post need Final Fantasy VII (1997) because his Remake design is near enough indistinguishable from his original design? Any Tifa_Lockhart Final_Fantasy_VII_(1997) search suddenly includes every post of Remake Tifa with Remake Cait Sith.

This is also a problem for Tifa's Remake design too. People aren't tagging Final Fantasy VII Remake on every base outfit Ever Crisis post. I'd just much rather tag them as Tifa Lockhart (Remake outfit) and then leave the Remake tags off every post referencing a title other than Remake.

Her Advent Children outfit is also her base appearance in Dirge and Kingdom Hearts. Tagging Advent Children on non-AC posts like post #5872565 or post #5545848 because a pictured character's outfit first appeared there seems excessive--At least when dedicated costume tags are an alternative.

But there's a bunch of posts that deliberately evoke the original FF7's style and events, like post #8903071, that could do with a tag. I think Final Fantasy VII Remake could be split too. If Final Fantasy VII Rebirth can let me see things only relevant to Rebirth, then there's no reason Remake couldn't have an equivalent. I just figured we were past the point where someone could be bothered to split them.

Spatula22 said:

Like I've split Tifa's base design into Classic and Remake because I think there's a clear divide. But character designs tend to make small changes with every appearance. I don't think every post in favgroup #48332 should have Final Fantasy VII (1997) when many posts are based on her Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy appearance.

I'm curious as to what the difference is between Dissidia and OG Tifa.

Would every Remake Cait Sith post need Final Fantasy VII (1997) because his Remake design is near enough indistinguishable from his original design?

Obviously not, and there are usually context clues as to which game the artist is referring to, such as other characters or game events. Even the date of posting would be enough, simply via recency bias; no one thinks you're referring to the OG with Remake supplanting everyone's mindshare.

This is also a problem for Tifa's Remake design too. People aren't tagging Final Fantasy VII Remake on every base outfit Ever Crisis post. I'd just much rather tag them as Tifa Lockhart (Remake outfit) and then leave the Remake tags off every post referencing a title other than Remake.

Her Advent Children outfit is also her base appearance in Dirge and Kingdom Hearts. Tagging Advent Children on non-AC posts like post #5872565 or post #5545848 because a pictured character's outfit first appeared there seems excessive--At least when dedicated costume tags are an alternative.

Again, context. I don't know how other people do it, but if there's nothing saying one or the other, I default to the costume's first appearance.

But there's a bunch of posts that deliberately evoke the original FF7's style and events, like post #8903071, that could do with a tag. I think Final Fantasy VII Remake could be split too. If Final Fantasy VII Rebirth can let me see things only relevant to Rebirth, then there's no reason Remake couldn't have an equivalent.

I had a long-ass debate with someone in topic #30379 over splitting the Remake tag, and I don't plan on starting it back up.

Hillside_Moose said:

Obviously not, and there are usually context clues as to which game the artist is referring to, such as other characters or game events. Even the date of posting would be enough, simply via recency bias; no one thinks you're referring to the OG with Remake supplanting everyone's mindshare.

Right, we agree on copyright tagging. There are posts of Tifa's classic outfit that wouldn't be tagged Final Fantasy VII (1997). Based on things like multi view/persona posts--Tifa's Remake outfit is usually considered distinct (besides Tifa, there's only really a case for Aerith). I think an outfit tag solution is best for being able to find these 3k+ posts buried deep in the 14k.

Though I couldn't really say how comparable a FFVII (1997) tag would be for this unless someone put in the work to populate it.

Re: Dissidia 012 design, I was actually thinking of her NT design. Which isn't as different as I thought: besides art style the only thing that would really be reflected in art is the buckles on the gloves.

+1 for splitting the copyright out into final fantasy vii (1997) similar to Doom I implying Doom (Series)

Spatula22 said:

Like I've split Tifa's base design into Classic and Remake because I think there's a clear divide. But character designs tend to make small changes with every appearance. I don't think every post in favgroup #48332 should have Final Fantasy VII (1997) when many posts are based on her Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy appearance.

After thinking on it some more, in this case Tifa's OG design would still get tagged with a hypothetical Final Fantasy VII (1997) because Dissidia's a company crossover game, a la Super Smash Bros. Characters are also tagged with their game of origin, and that's where her look originated from. Looking through Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy, there are several examples of Tifa's Advent Children outfit being tagged as such.

If characters appear in the progenitor of a series they don't look to get tagged with the game. Other than that, Princess Peach is rarely tagged Super Mario Bros. 1, and Kazuya's outfits are rarely tagged Tekken 7 or Tekken 5.

Though the most similar example is probably Sora, whose KH1 outfit in Smash posts is usually tagged Kingdom Hearts I. So you're right.

Tifa's never reused her original outfit outside of cameos, crossovers, promos, a single flashbacks to VII events, and uh... G-Bike. So everything in the favgroup really would have the (purely hypothetical) Final Fantasy VII (1997) tag.

Spatula22 said:

If characters appear in the progenitor of a series they don't look to get tagged with the game. Other than that, Princess Peach is rarely tagged Super Mario Bros. 1, and Kazuya's outfits are rarely tagged Tekken 7 or Tekken 5.

Those games have been running for so long, the characters frequently reused, and with largely the same default designs, that it wouldn't help anyone to tag Super Mario Bros. 1 or Tekken 5 on literally every instance of Peach or Kazuya. Same with Touhou and Pokemon (the creatures, not the humans). It wasn't until 3D modeling improved to the point where characters got different outfits, designs, and even age that tagging the individual games became important.

Funny that you should mention Peach; the Princess Toadstool redraw meme is a case where such posts would've been diluted or lost had people tagged every Peach post with Super Mario Bros. 1.

As someone who does occasionally monitor the Final Fantasy tag I do sometimes have to remove/add the Remake tag from Tifa and other characters. I didn't particularly see an issue or need for your original request since you would just have to -final_fantasy_vii_remake but I see it's not that simple. There's a lot of noise present: EC, AC and all assorted Compilation entries. Adding black_skirt & suspenders helps.

Her original/classic outfit is in the minority nowadays, so it makes sense that you'd want to search for it.

She's not the only who has distinct Remake versions. So do Aerith, Barret, Yuffie, Vincent. And even side characters like Rufus. Cloud, Cid, Cait Sith, Red XIII are more or less the same. Tifa changed the most significantly.

As for the name, I would strongly suggest tifa_lockhart_(ff7_og), because "classic outfit" while being okay might drown in the abundance of tags that Tifa already has. By switching up the format (starting the tag with a FF title) it would make the tag jump out more when people are looking at the tags. ff7_og is also less ambiguous than "classic outfit", the latter could still be interpreted as Tifa being in a classic old-fashioned 19th century outfit, or some such. You can apply this same tag to other characters with distinct FFVII OG designs. Other options: tifa_lockhart_(ff7_1997), tifa_lockhart_(1997).

I suppose an umbrella copyright tag (final_fantasy_vii_(1997)] could work but good points were raised.

"I don't think every post in favgroup #48332 should have Final Fantasy VII (1997) when many posts are based on her Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy appearance."
If it makes reference to Dissidia 012 (narrative) events then it should be Dissidia 012 only, in terms of copyright. Since many entries across the Final Fantasy Vii compilation share outfits and events. You can't tag something with all the copyrights it's featured in.

There is no reference to any specific entry? Then tag the costume/character/event to the entry it was first (MAJORLY) featured in. The parenthesis is because a character could've been teased but not majorly featured like Genesis in Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy Vii but he is regarded as a Crisis Core: Final Fantasy Vii character.

If there is a reference to a specific entry? Then tag it with that.

At the end of the day, it's also up to the uploader/tagger's discretion.

"Would every Remake Cait Sith post need Final Fantasy VII (1997) because his Remake design is near enough indistinguishable from his original design?"
Not particularly an issue to me. For characters with indistinguishable designs it's up to the tagger's discretion. Though the follow-up point is a good counter for not using an umbrella copyright tag. With a vast copyright such as final_fantasy_vii perhaps it's best to err on the side of granularity. In this case the more detailed specific tag tifa_lockhart_(ff7_og) wins out.

"This is also a problem for Tifa's Remake design too. People aren't tagging Final Fantasy VII Remake on every base outfit Ever Crisis post."
If Tifa is wearing her base Final Fantasy Vii Remake and it isn't tagged as such, without any specific references/costumes of Final Fantasy Vii: Ever Crisis present, then it's a case of mistagging.

"Her Advent Children outfit is also her base appearance in Dirge and Kingdom Hearts. Tagging Advent Children on non-AC posts like post #5872565 or post #5545848 because a pictured character's outfit first appeared there seems excessive--At least when dedicated costume tags are an alternative."
As Hillside Moose and my post says, the context matters. Reference to entry => tag with entry. No reference => first major appearance. In this case, by default that outfit would get the Final Fantasy Vii: Advent Children copyright. If there's a reference to Dirge Of Cerberus: Final Fantasy Vii , Kingdom Hearts Ii , or maybe even recently Final Fantasy Vii: Ever Crisis , then tag it with that copyright instead of Final Fantasy Vii: Advent Children.

"I had a long-ass debate with someone in topic #30379 over splitting the Remake tag"
Good times.

If there would be a new character tag it would be useful for characters like Tifa, Aerith, Rufus even. Since theirs are most distinct. This artist, for example, likes to draw the OG versions for the final_fantasy_vii cast.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.