Dogenzaka said:
It just seems like after a while, and with the internet being as popular as it is, lots of spoilers would become common knowledge after long enough(FF7 anyone?).
Didn't that spoiler in FF7 become common knowledge almost immediately?
Posted under General
Regarding Homura, the spoiler is X. The images depict Y. Y is not sufficient to deduce X. Therefore Y is not a major spoiler. It is kind of a spoiler, but it's no more significant than the existence of a new character being a spoiler.
I think the policy decision should be, we don't care about minor spoilers. I think it's intuitive. I think it also saves us some moderation work.
I saw some pics before the episode (contrary to my normal practice of avoiding the MSMM tag entirely until I've seen the latest episode a few days after it's aired) and just shrugged it off as a fan thing or that she needed a disguise.
The thing with spoilers, whenever I see people wanting to strengthen spoiler rules, is that most are only spoilers in hindsight. If you see the pic before the episode, it's usually meaningless. But the ranting and raving about it being a spoiler is what causes the person to be spoiled.
The way I see it, spoilers should never expire. But what actually constitutes a spoiler is suprisingly few. When considering adding the spoiler tag, try and view the pic from the perspective of somebody who doesn't know about the spoiler. Otherwise, pretty much everything is a spoiler.
Anyone who consider the spoilers tag as a spoiling culprit is getting it backwards - it is there to be blacklisted so that you don't open the image in the first place. That's what I do every Thursday, blacklisting mahou_shoujo_madoka_magica spoilers and go on with approval job, fixing up tags, enjoy non-spoiling pics.
I don't understand what is the problem here. If you don't blacklist spoilers of a show then you're agreeing to be spoiled. As such, don't expect others people to tell a sweet lie "that's not a spoiler" and let you be happily ignorant. Either you see or don't see that image, that's it, stop saying "if you didn't tell me it's a spoiler, I wouldn't know".
As for the issue of Homura's alternate appearance, it is a spoiler. Don't forget she is a huge enigma and "who is Homura" is one of the biggest question of the show. Speculations are everywhere before ep10 is broadcasted. Is she the black cat? a future daughter? Madoka's mother? If so many fans try that hard to guess this question, it's common sense to be considerate and not spoil it for them.
rantuyetmai said:
That's what I do every Thursday, blacklisting mahou_shoujo_madoka_magica spoilers and go on with approval job, fixing up tags, enjoy non-spoiling pics.
Apparently, you don't "enjoy non-spoiling pics", because a rather large amount of new spoiler tags on Madoka images were added by you for even the most trivial references (Kyouko). If you didn't have to approve pending Madoka posts, you'd be better off blacklisting the copyright.
From now on, a part (let's say 10-20%) of all Homura images will feature that "spoiler". From the perspective of someone who watches the ongoing series, it could be a fan thing (like Sayaka being Walpurgisnacht), for the ones who will come to watch the series in a year, it's just a girl with braids (What a Spoiler!). They'll just wonder why they won't get to see that girl with braids within x episodes.
Really, Homura with braids, Nagato Yuki without glasses, Justin Bieber cuts his hair, this is ridiculous.
Yeah, Madoka Magica is about the spoiler-most series we've had in recent history, but with some comment threads on the series, you'd swear it was a top secret document for all that's redacted. I'm not entirely sure how much is too much. I agree with points on both sides here, but it's an awful lot either way.
S1eth said:
Apparently, you don't "enjoy non-spoiling pics", because a rather large amount of new spoiler tags on Madoka images were added by you for even the most trivial references (Kyouko).
I watch Raw version first so even if it seems fast to you, it doesn't mean I never avoid spoiler posts. And please be precise, 'cause I'm not the first person who tagged spoilers to Kyouko and Homura, there are people who are much faster than me relating to new episodes, and certainly am not the only one doing so either. Check carefully all the Puella posts tag history before stating anything.
From now on, a part (let's say 10-20%) of all Homura images will feature that "spoiler".
It doesn't mean anything. A spoiler will always be a spoiler regardless of time or number of images it gets. Are you saying that since we see Mami dying everywhere, let's screw it and de-tag everything?
To repeat it again and again, the spoiler tag is there for blacklisting posts-feature-what-really-happened-in-the-show. Nothing is accomplished by removing them. No user is stupid enough to think "it's just a fan thing" because of the sheer amount of picture depicting the same thing. Puella is peculiar in that each episode contains a specific visual trademark Mami mogu, soul gem truth, silhouette Sayaka, Incubator with bullet hole, witch Sayaka, suicidal Kyouko, past Homura that I myself don't want to be shown before watching that episode. Really, if there are more than one person consider these as spoiler and tag them as such then that must mean something.
"If you don't want to be spoiled, simply avoid the entire copyright". Good line, but then why do we bother tag spoilers AT ALL? Put this advice in the start page of Danbooru so users know what to do with anime they haven't watched.
From the perspective of someone who watches the ongoing series, it could be a fan thing (like Sayaka being Walpurgisnacht), for the ones who will come to watch the series in a year, it's just a girl with braids (What a Spoiler!). They'll just wonder why they won't get to see that girl with braids within x episodes.
Read my previous post, second paragraph.
Updated
Thought exercise: If I were unfamiliar with Madoka Magica and inclined to make assumptions about its plot based on popular fanart trends, in addition to suspecting a deeper meaning behind Homura's alternate appearance, I would be expecting Charlotte and Kyubey to turn into real girls at any moment.
7HS said:
Thought exercise: If I were unfamiliar with Madoka Magica and inclined to make assumptions about its plot based on popular fanart trends, in addition to suspecting a deeper meaning behind Homura's alternate appearance, I would be expecting Charlotte and Kyubey to turn into real girls at any moment.
Except for the Kyubey one, that's what I think having not watched it yet. 2 for 3, pretty good.
7HS said:
Thought exercise: If I were unfamiliar with Madoka Magica and inclined to make assumptions about its plot based on popular fanart trends, in addition to suspecting a deeper meaning behind Homura's alternate appearance, I would be expecting Charlotte and Kyubey to turn into real girls at any moment.
You're not seeing anyone saying it's a spoiler. You're never going to see those things in the show either.
What is being spoiled? To not be surprised anymore with the special surprise of the week. If you already see an image contains said surprise, then regardless if you realize it or not - you already know something and wouldn't get the full experience anymore.
Seem to me like nobody in this thread actually blacklisted the spoilers tag. It's supposed to shield users entirely from opening up those images at all, not there to tell them it is a spoiler after they've seen the stuff.
Mahou_shoujo_madoka_magica spoilers take 30 pages in the current 280 pages of this copyright. It has more spoilers than a normal show and cause false illusion that there is a problem, when in fact it doesn't.
Blame the artists, they really shouldn't race each other drawing the same scenes over and over again. That makes the spoiler tag being used more often.
albert said:
How about we just implicate Madoka to spoilers. I don't think any other property has caused this much controversy.
Its only a small number. The controversy, currently, is whether or not a change in a character's appearance counts as a spoiler. The other spoilers Mami's death, Kyubey's real name, Sayaka's Witch form are not causing issues.
By the way, I'm not sure if other people are having this, but the notice for the change long thread on the top on the website isn't working for me. I've also been unable to use the email and send you the list as a result.
rantuyetmai said:
Mahou_shoujo_madoka_magica spoilers take 30 pages in the current 280 pages of this copyright. It has more spoilers than a normal show and cause false illusion that there is a problem, when in fact it doesn't.Blame the artists, they really shouldn't race each other drawing the same scenes over and over again. That makes the spoiler tag being used more often.
Looking at it the opposite way though, those 30 pages make up a full 1/3rd of the spoilers tag. And almost half of those 30 pages are just a character wearing her hair in braids. Which is a problem, and is why this thread exists to begin with.
Hinacle said:
Looking at it the opposite way though, those 30 pages make up a full 1/3rd of the spoilers tag.
And so did Nazrin images swarm dowsing rod or Kochiya Sanae dominates frog, it just happens that something is more associated with a tag and shouldn't be our concern. Make me wonder... no one is subscribing to the spoilers tag, right?
Remember before ep10 we know nothing about her, all the speculations are fun to discuss and I'd like to keep it that way for late comers. Of course I had already seen the episode, so I don't know why I'm fighting so passionately about this. Guess that my view is like this: if we're gonna help users to avoid being spoiled by implementing spoilers tag, do it thoroughly. If we're gonna be half-ass about it, I won't bother anymore.
rantuyetmai said:
And so did Nazrin images swarm dowsing rod or Kochiya Sanae dominates frog, it just happens that something is more associated with a tag and shouldn't be our concern. Make me wonder... no one is subscribing to the spoilers tag, right?Remember before ep10 we know nothing about her, all the speculations are fun to discuss and I'd like to keep it that way for late comers. Of course I had already seen the episode, so I don't know why I'm fighting so passionately about this. Guess that my view is like this: if we're gonna help users to avoid being spoiled by implementing spoilers tag, do it thoroughly. If we're gonna be half-ass about it, I won't bother anymore.
The point wasn't that there's a lot of madoka + spoiler pictures though. The point was that there's a lot of pictures, and a lot of them are mistagged.
Going off the logic that Homura's hairstyle is a spoiler, tons of things in the series (such as miki_sayaka sword -spoilers) are just as much of a spoiler. Hence the whole "why not just implicate Madoka to spoilers" comment.
It's not a matter of being half-assed in implementation, it's a matter of not being excessive. No one has issue with tagging the actual spoilers (things like post #873432 and post #873496 very clearly still are for example), but most of this thread is in agreement that pictures just featuring the hairstyle and glasses aren't really spoilers as far as our policy is concerned. I don't see what's so crazy about abiding to that.
Maybe the best thing we can do to solve this is defining what exactly constitutes a Madoka spoiler for Danbooru and using that as a guideline.
Like there are many obvious ones, Mami dies, Soul Gems steal your soul, magical girls eventually turn into witches, Sayaka and Kyouko die, the reason Kyuubee is on Earth, Homura is Groundhog Daying herself, but there are sometimes the tag usage seems overboard. Many of the posts in pool #3104 were recently tagged as spoilers, and I can't figure out why. post #876103: Kyouko gives Sayaka an apple? A scene in post #875532 that doesn't even happen or refer to anything in the canon series is tagged spoilers. I mean, if you think every part of the storyline should be shrouded in mystery, then maybe you could make the case for that, but a lot of these aren't major plot points.
Since there are a lot of semi-spoilers in this series, I think a consensus (or around here, near-consensus) should be drawn as to what should be tagged spoilers when referring to Madoka so people have a guideline when tagging/uploading. Same thing for dealing with spoiling comments, of course.
I think the Homura with braids can be declared a non-spoiler at this point. It was a big deal at the time, but now its much harder to tell, coming in cold, that thats a huge change.
I would say to remove the tag from any posts that only have it because of that.
In general, I don't think the spoilers tag is very useful. If you don't want to be spoiled on new events, either blacklist the entire copyright, or just avoid Danbooru until you can watch it. Depending on people using that particular tag correctly is...marginal.