Posted under General
@Hinacle: I agree that there are many nonsense addition of spoilers to Madoka images and had tried to clean them up if I spot one. But let's stay with one focus at hand first:
Different from Sayaka being a magical girl (which is not a secret, she is even in the OP), Homura's identity is a key plot point. Do we agree here? That's why I think anything relating to it will spoil the viewer. Should I have not add the tag in post #872964, post #874458, post #873548, post #875227?
I don't agree that nerd Homura is a spoiler, because despite knowing that it has to be some sort of major plot point, you can make a number of valid assumptions about the reason behind the change, and therefore you still don't know what it's about.
The change itself isn't a spoiler. The reason behind the change is. What you know however is that the newest episode deals with this reason (which I wouldn't consider a spoiler either).
In case you'd want to count as spoiler anything that happens in every new episode, then you should be tagging as spoiler any new character that wasn't introduced at episode 1, otherwise upon seeing fanart of this character growing just after the latest episode aired you'll know what it means.
Evangeline_A.K._McDowell said:
Many of the posts in pool #3104 were recently tagged as spoilers
Agree with you about the posts but I think the pool's description IS a spoiler however.
Evangeline_A.K._McDowell said:
Many of the posts in pool #3104 were recently tagged as spoilers, and I can't figure out why.
All, not just many. I've tagged the whole pool, regardless of the individual posts' contents, because more than half of it references very key plot points, and I want to avoid people wandering into the middle of it with an innocent post, then navigating with the pool bar to a spoiler.
Cyberia-Mix said:
I don't agree that nerd Homura is a spoiler, because despite knowing that it has to be some sort of major plot point, you can make a number of valid assumptions about the reason behind the change, and therefore you still don't know what it's about.
But the very existence of such a persona is a spoiler, and a major one at that, because for the whole series up to this point, Homura is the enigmatic, cool and emotionless killing machine. You just won't see it the same way if you're told about it beforehand (as a matter of fact, I did actually stumble upon one such pic while still waiting for a sane ep 10 release to come out, and was extremely pissed off at my own stupidity).
葉月 said:
All, not just many. I've tagged the whole pool, regardless of the individual posts' contents, because more than half of it references very key plot points, and I want to avoid people wandering into the middle of it with an innocent post, then navigating with the pool bar to a spoiler.
I think that would be better served by putting a spoiler warning in the pool title than tagging all the individual posts whether or not they have spoilers.
Stoic, enigmatic, killing machine protagonists frequently get a polar opposite fan personality. I hardly even think anything of it anymore. The only reason it's remotely a spoiler here is because it's canon, and even then it doesn't really give away any plot elements.
Madoka is a magical girl
could be considered a spoiler at this point since you don't see it until so late in the series. Is Madoka is still NOT a magical girl a spoiler? That's something that's obvious in the beginning but one would expect it to change.
The underlying problem is that what constitutes a spoiler and why varies as it is a subjective concept. I personally don't find most spoilers very spoilery, as most of them require the context, the "why".
Homura used to be a nerdy girl
doesn't seem to spoil anything to me. If anything it adds another layer of interest. Why the change? What provoked it? Though I suppose I could see why some people wouldn't want to know about it, just when I first saw it I didn't get that "Oh wow!" moment, that moment where things in your head snap and suddenly everything is different.
Homura used to be a nerdy girl until she realized she couldn't depend on anybody but herself to save Madoka from her fate of becoming a witch that would destroy the world or dying in the process is a spoiler. The details here give away large plot elements.
Homura became a badass after having to mercy kill Madoka in an alternate timeline is a spoiler. And I'd say it's a spoiler of the worst kind, as it gives away one of the most heartwrenching scenes of the series so far, along with information that could easily allow someone to figure out other things and spoil themselves to everything.
Mami is an airhead is a spoiler (and a very cruel joke I might add.)
It just feels odd to nitpick what could effectively be an artist's whim just because it happens in the series. If Haruhi suddenly genderswapped Kyon and the plot was loosely based on the Kyonko fan character's exploits are those now spoilers?
Suiseiseki said:
Madoka is a magical girl could be considered a spoiler at this point since you don't see it until so late in the series.
This is a really bad idea. The early official art featurued Madoka wearing her MS costume and tons of fanart stemmed from there before she ever appeared actually wearing it in ep. 10. In case I hadn't watched the particular episode, I certainly wouldn't find anything unnatural on the recent MS Madoka fanart (unless it featured any of the trademark events from ep. 10, which would warrant a spoiler tag on its own, anyway). Where would you even draw the line between the images influenced by promo art and by ep. 10? It's impossible.
葉月 said:
But the very existence of such a persona is a spoiler, and a major one at that, because for the whole series up to this point, Homura is the enigmatic, cool and emotionless killing machine. You just won't see it the same way if you're told about it beforehand (as a matter of fact, I did actually stumble upon one such pic while still waiting for a sane ep 10 release to come out, and was extremely pissed off at my own stupidity).
Well I can't argue any further at this point. You feel that the existence of a nerd Homura is a spoiler where I really don't, and it's stuck that way.
If we're in such a situation that taggers can't guess people expectations, nothing can really be done on the taggers end.
Like others said you just completely avoid looking at any madoka pictures one way or another until you're up to date with the show.
Updated
Just for the record, I finally watched the episode in question.
So now I can say with certainty that these pics of nerd Homura weren't spoilers. I mean, from them I expected a flashback to a younger Homura, which I got. But that by itself is hardly a spoiler. It was clearly coming anyway sooner or later. So all these pics told me is that it was going to be in episode 10, and not 11 or 12.
And even the fact that Homura is a time traveller isn't much of a spoiler either, Kyubey already stated that in episode 9, quite aside from seeing her manipulate time so readily in each fight. And there's no way you're getting that clue just from looking at Homura with braids and glasses either. (However, it would be a spoiler before seeing episode 9, so it should probably still be tagged.)
So all in all I agree with what Suiseiseki wrote above, about what constitutes a spoiler and what doesn't. I'm seriously glad I avoided that post before watching the episode.
Overtagging spoilers is like the boy who cried wolf. If even the tiniest spoiler is tagged, you either have to take the <series> spoiler combo out of your blacklist or miss a lot of good pics that wouldn't be actual spoilers for you.
It makes avoiding the real, big spoilers just as hard as if the spoiler tag didn't exist.
Maybe one solution would be to create a minor_spoilers tag. It would help people who want to avoid those too, while allowing others like me to blacklist only major spoilers.
Updated
It couldn't be, that would imply all minor spoilers are major spoilers. Perhaps the converse implication could be done, but even that isn't really necessary.
Implications are useful for tag searches. But few people will want to specifically search out spoilers... whereas there is no limit in the number of entries in the blacklist, so just adding both types there is but a minor inconvenience.
[edit]
Although perhaps for people who currently blacklist certain series spoilers, it would be annoying to not be notified of this change in spoiler tagging policy, and suddenly seeing spoilers.
So instead of creating minor_spoilers, it might be better to create major_spoilers instead and implicate that to spoilers. The re-tagging effort would be the same.
piespy said:
It couldn't be, that would imply all minor spoilers are major spoilers. Perhaps the converse implication could be done, but even that isn't really necessary.Implications are useful for tag searches. But few people will want to specifically search out spoilers... whereas there is no limit in the number of entries in the blacklist, so just adding both types there is but a minor inconvenience.
There is a character limit in the blacklist.
Fencedude said:
I think that after Madoka ends this will cease to be a major problem.
What Fencedude said.
piespy said:
Overtagging spoilers is like the boy who cried wolf. If even the tiniest spoiler is tagged, you either have to take the <series> spoiler combo out of your blacklist or miss a lot of good pics that wouldn't be actual spoilers for you.
There are ways more pictures to be enjoyed without sight of what happened in the show (stuffs like post #870435, post #872976, post #867977 for example), I myself want to browse these even when I haven't watched the latest episode yet. The use of spoilers tag is very short-lived for each individual, they just need to blacklist "name_copyright spoilers" for a while until they watch the show. After that the blacklist is removed and again they can open any image they want, nothing is lost in the process. I don't comprehend the hate of using this tag: if you don't blacklist it, leave it alone for other people then.
Count me out for the major/minor_spoilers idea because of 2 problems:
Talking about Homura's case: the fact that multiple users naturally and consistently tag it as spoilers - without prior discussion - is a good indication of how people might see it. Give this some thought.
Updated
Heparine said:
This is a really bad idea. The early official art featurued Madoka wearing her MS costume and tons of fanart stemmed from there before she ever appeared actually wearing it in ep. 10.
I was pointing out the absurdity of what could be called spoilers. I have no desire to make MS Madoka require a spoiler tag.
To bump. I think the major_spoiler idea might work.
My comment is on Oktavia_Von_Seckendorff being within the same image as Miki_Sayaka, however, basically having Sayaka posing in front of Oktavia the same as any other character would. Like when an image itself is not really blaring "this is what she becomes!!", but giving off a subtle feel.The spoilers for this one seem to work best when Sayaka is literally half and half of Oktavia, or Okatavia is some kind of intimidating presence.Apologize in advance. I removed a spoiler from this image (post #900162) as it just doesn't seem like a spoiler, or at least not a major one. It is almost like she is afraid to fight the witch not giving off the "that's her" vibe.However this one gives off a different feeling (post #889090) as Oktavia is literally shadowing her. Now these two seem like minor spoilers (post #887418) / (post #898573).
mami_mogu_mogu (which was recently cleared up) had a small issue with an over use of spoiler tagging even when both Mami and the witch were simply within the same image and just sitting.
I like the major_spoilers idea, but something less subjective may be useful here: how about current_spoilers? It seems to me that the vast majority of people who want to avoid being spoiled are people who are watching the show, but just haven't had the time to see the latest episode yet. If we tag current_spoilers on posts that refer to material from the the most recently broadcast episode, viewers could blacklist that tag and still see the rest of the posts, while those people who aren't watching the show, but are still blacklisting spoilers for it (really, what exactly is going through their minds?) can continue blacklisting the spoilers tag.
