Reason: One user took it upon himself to go through several poison_(final_fight) posts, remove the futanari tag, and replace it with shemale and trap. With Poison announced as a character in Street Fighter X Tekken, it's best to nip it in the bud now.
First, with the "transgender or crossdressing" wiki definition for trap, I can see where the confusion comes from. For a hard definition I liken it more to feminine males with no enhancement whatsoever. This is also the way I usually see it around as, but it's way far gone, it'd be a lot of clean up, and we'd lose the spirit of the original definition.
But, shemale =/= futanari. Futanari have both sets of genitalia, which shemales don't. No vagina, no futa. Poison, as she's most often portrayed, is the Japanese newhalf / shemale / male pre-op / dick with breasts version. The two just aren't the same and it doesn't make any sense that any shemale image would be included in futanari.
We avoid shemale related tags for whatever reason and it clashes sometimes with 'tag what you see not what you know' (then again, so does a lot of trap tagging), but it does have purpose and is the most accurate in relation to Poison. Searching futanari or trap + breasts or something similar just isn't the most efficient way to search for images in the genre, either. So, I say no to the alias, with the suggestion that we begin putting the shemale (if not shemale + trap) or similar tag into actual use.
If a Poison image shows up that is actually futanari, then tag it futanari, but these recent Poison tag changes weren't wrong.
One major issue I see with drawing a distinction between 'shemale' and 'futanari' (or whatever you want to call them) is that it's often not obvious from the image which it would fall into. In fact, my bigger problem with all these poison_(final_fight) changes is that they go against 'tag what you see'.
Granted, that's often a problem with trap images and the like -- if you don't actually see (or imply) their genitals, there's no way of knowing whether a particular artist decided to draw them as fully female or whatever.
More than that, though -- people who do searches on shemale or futanari or anything like that are probably looking for shemale/futanari images. That is, images that, taken on their own, clearly portray or are about shemales/futanari. I would personally say that unless a character is clearly shown as a shemale or futanari in a particular image (whether visually, by dialog or text, by implication, or whatever), they should never be tagged as such -- 'canonically a shemale' should never matter, because we tag exclusively based on what's shown in the image, not based on their canonical status. People who know that Poison is a shemale are capable of searching for that name specifically; people who don't are going to wonder why there's a bunch of images of a girl coming up on a search for 'shemale'.
I simply can't envision a situation where someone is going to be searching for images that are canonically of futanari without any hint in the image itself -- who cares? If you're looking for a particular canonical futanari or whatever, you can search on their name.
Also, I know a lot of people consider the term 'shemale' to be offensive, which might be why it's been avoided until now. Don't know if we care about that, but it's probably part of the reason.
NWF_Renim said: What UTW said, it also covers my own thoughts on the matter as well.
Mine as well.
As for unifying those kinds of tags, I support newhalf as the dominate tag (which again appears to have been cleared of all images it seems).
I would support the newhalf tag for this purpose as well, as it's the less offensive term and, all other things being equal, that one should get priority.
I would also like to suggest that, since futanari is so much more prevalent in art here, that unless it can be clearly seen that an intersexed character has no vagina, the futanari tag should apply rather than newhalf. Various other factors apply as usual, of course, but in general, if a user sees a female body with a penis, it should be considered a garden-variety futanari until proven otherwise.
While my thoughts on the matter are more in line with Xabid's, I'm not entirely against having a narrower tag for "girls with dicks but no vaginas." However, it would only work if the tag had clear and unambiguous instructions for tagging, as sgcdonmai mentioned. Otherwise the fanboys will slap the tag on nearly everything canonical. Though with such a narrow focus, you pretty much have to have a close-up, underside view of a character's crotch, so I'm not sure if the tag will ever be used legitimately.
If we do that, then the canonical examples would flood out the legit examples. Poison is the only canonical example as far I know, so it'll end up as a Poison-exclusive fanwank tag.
Regardless of what we do, the new tag will need to be implicated to futanari. Yes, yes, I know how it's "incorrect" to tag them as such, but visually it's still a woman with a penis, and I'm unconvinced that someone searching for futas wouldn't want newhalves as well.
Implicating it to futanari is completely wrong and I'd be 100% against it. You're just looking at the whole concept all wrong. The tag is effectively the equivalent of a gender, much as the futanari tag should be a gender on its own. You don't need to have visual evidence all the time to say a character is a certain gender, nor should it be necessary. If a source indicates a character is a certain gender we do not question it, so I do not see why you're having this problem of trying to force this "gender" into another "gender" that it is not.
My "problem" is that it goes completely against "tag what you see." If I were completely ignorant of Poison's canon, I would've tagged any image of her with a penis with futanari. Xabid has already explained this far better than I could, both in this thread and in forum #42365.
Not all tags will exists in a state where it'll only be tagging just what you see. Despite that, even if we did tag what we see then your implication would still go out the window as images in which you can clearly see that they lack a vagina would not fall under the futanari tag nor should they.
The trap and crossdressing tags very easily fall in the category of not being able to fully encompass tagging just what you see.
Newhalf is not futanari, and it shouldn't be. If you had an image where a clearly exposed newhalf was having sex with a man, it would be yaoi and not futa_on_male. Futa is an alternative gender (really a female with a penis), newhalf is an effeminate man with breast implants (or in other words pre-op male-to-female).
While I can't speak for everyone else, but if I was searching the futanari tag I would not expect images of newhalfs to appear under it. It would be the same thing as searching for female characters and coming across images of traps, they're quite similar, but they're not the same thing and we would not try and lump them together as if they were.
*chirps in* I'd right off go for a newhalf -> futanari implication, but then the futanari -newhalf search would exclude images with both.
I've only "Ctrl+F"-skimmed the thread, but if a futanari/newhalf -> hermaphrodite implication set hasn't been suggested, maybe that could be a compromise? A quick "define:hermaphrodite" on Google brings up "A person or animal having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics, either abnormally or naturally," so I could see newhalf -> hermaphrodite working.
I changed Poison to "shemale" for posts where it is CLEAR that she has a penis but NOT a vagina. This would be shemale/newhalf/transsexual, and occurs in real life (as anyone with an internet connection can attest). Essentially a person who does not crossdress (is a trap), but uses surgery to permanently become a woman.
Futanari, BY DEFINITION, is a fictional sex, wherein a person has both vagina AND penis.