Contributers and automatic down-voting

I just posted two animated images and sent them through the mod queue for review. As usual, they automatically down-voted when I did this.

I know I posted about this in May of last year in forum #61841, and even opened a trac ticket at http://trac.donmai.us/ticket/1300.

post #1125476
post #1125475

Edit: for some reason I thought I could up-vote, but I've always had to favorite them, so never mind about that. Still, this is a nuisance. Ideally, flagging a post should not automatically down-vote. That seems the quickest permanent fix.

It does that? Since fucking when? We have, very explicitly and in public, discussed that, and DECIDED AGAINST SUCH A BEHAVIOUR back when the flagging was implemented/reworked. I'm not going to mention names, but someone seriously needs to be bitchslapped for changing code underneath our feet without saying a single fucking word. This is not even ridiculous; it has passed the point of mere ridiculousness a long time ago.

Favoriting automatically giving images an upvote also should not be happening. I may decide to like a post, but not think it is objectively worth a higher score. This behavior causes a lot of images with bad art to become high-scoring simply because lots of users favorited them for being porn, while good SFW art doesn't receive many points because of people not favoriting them as much.

Only privileged and above favorites upvote. All users flags downvote.

Log said:
All users flags downvote.

Well, shit. That's even worse.

Aristocrat said:
Favoriting automatically giving images an upvote also should not be happening. I may decide to like a post, but not think it is objectively worth a higher score. This behavior causes a lot of images with bad art to become high-scoring simply because lots of users favorited them for being porn, while good SFW art doesn't receive many points because of people not favoriting them as much.

That part is precisely the reason we have limited voting to priv+ only. As such I'm strongly in favour of keeping the upvoting behaviour in place, since it's a rather small minority of people who fav for reasons other than liking. That also has been discussed, btw, together with the flagging-without-downvoting behaviour as originally specced out.

Another difference is that you can un-favorite to reverse an accidental / unintentional upvote, you can't reverse a downvote due to flagging.

Log said:
All users flags downvote.

This isn't true. I am a regular user, and when I flag an image there isn't an automatic downvote.

葉月 said:
As such I'm strongly in favour of keeping the upvoting behaviour in place, since it's a rather small minority of people who fav for reasons other than liking.

Are you 100% sure about that? Search any well-populated tag up along with order:score and the first page is nearly guaranteed to be full of porn or questionable images. Even looking at individual artists (dango_mushi, for one), the NSFW images accumulate a shitload more favorites and have higher score than the safe images, despite similar art quality.

EDIT> A link to the original discussion you mentioned would be nice. I can't seem to locate it.

feline_lump said:
This isn't true. I am a regular user, and when I flag an image there isn't an automatic downvote.

Are you sure about this? It seems beyond bizarre that albert would feel one point from our multiple page discussion about how dumb the change was and ignore the rest.

Aristocrat said:
Are you 100% sure about that? Search any well-populated tag up along with order:score and the first page is nearly guaranteed to be full of porn or questionable images. Even looking at individual artists (dango_mushi, for one), the NSFW images accumulate a shitload more favorites and have higher score than the safe images, despite similar art quality.

EDIT> A link to the original discussion you mentioned would be nice. I can't seem to locate it.

Score to me seems to be only epeen related anyways. Why does it matter if "porn" gets high scores just because it's porn? Good pictures are good pictures regardless if they have a high score or high favorite count.

That's just me though.

Log said:
Are you sure about this? It seems beyond bizarre that albert would feel one point from our multiple page discussion about how dumb the change was and ignore the rest.

Yes, I'm positive. I have flagged a few images today and none of them were automatically downvoted. I don't recall that ever happening with my past flags, either.

Rastamepas said:
Good pictures are good pictures regardless if they have a high score or high favorite count.

That's just me though.

Except for instances where bad pictures (relative quality) that were NSFW are scored higher than good pictures that are safe for work, making searching for good art a frustrating experience when high tier art is at score = 3 and thus buried near the end of the results. Putting on rating:s remedies this somewhat, but that excludes good art that happens to be unsafe and should not even be necessary in the first place if upvoting and favoriting became unlinked behaviors.

I think upvoting when you fav is perfectly fine. When I like an image enough to fav it that point is well deserved.

I also think downvoting when you flag is fine. When I dislike an image enough to flag it sure deserves the downvote.

People abusing the flag system should be taken care of though, like any other offender. Removing the downvote if a flagged image is not deleted would be a good idea, dunno if that happens already.

About NSFW pics being high on the list, well, if the majority likes them they deserve to be high on the list. Tastes are different, nobody is bound to like everything there is, high score or not. Using the rating to narrow down a search is easy to do, no matter what rating you search for.

One thing about automatic upvoting while favoriting is that this gives privileged and above users the ability to actually "double vote" for a post.

Just some thought, what's wrong with 'double voting'?

I didn't mean to imply that anything was wrong with it. I was only meaning that this should be considered in high-scoring posts.

The problem with automatic downvoting on flagging is that "this image is shit" is not the only reason to flag an image. gladwort rather regularly runs things through the queue that he's not 100% about and there's no reason to downvote a pixiv sample.

Pixiv samples can be downvoted for being samples since those are not to be uploaded.
Flagging to get something checked is about the only thing that shouldn't be downvoted, but it's no big deal if the downvote is erased upon approvement.

It seems to me the simplest answer would be to separate voting from flagging, rather than forcefully linking them. It's frustrating.

Per Hazuki this has been discussed before and decided upon, so unless someone has a solid argument for keeping it, it should go. Anyone?