I'm dubious that there can be a clear separation between adapted and alternate, especially if posts like post #754029, count as adapted. Do you have any examples to illustrate where the line should be drawn? Would Suwako in post #472328 be adapted merely because of the the hat and colour scheme?
alternate_costume - something else than the default, only use when a post doesn't include any other tags that describe what they are wearing.
So excluding everything in tag group:attire? I see the point about pollution, but that's a lot of tags to search if I just want a character in all non-standard outfit. I'd think e.g. post #796738 should qualify even though it's also a dress_shirt.
post #754029 The resemblance to her "normal" clothes is rather weak (but it's there) with that added jacket and all. It's also hard to call it an adapted_costume when she didn't ever get an official costume to begin with, what with there being hundreds of different interpretations of her clothes on danbooru. I wouldn't remove the tag if it were there.
post #796738 has alternate_costume and contemporary. Wriggle already wears a dress_shirt and just her pants have been switched with a skirt. This looks a bit too casual for adapted_costume and too normal for the Gensokyo setting to be contemporary. However, for Casual, the character must normally wear a costume, which doesn't seem right either. I suggest alternate_color for this one.
zatchii said: I'm dubious that there can be a clear separation between adapted and alternate, especially if posts like post #754029 count as adapted. Do you have any examples to illustrate where the line should be drawn?
Yeah, there're many cases where both adapted_costume and alternate_costume can be applied. In post #754029, the print on Momiji's shorts is not common and strongly remind the viewer of her original skirt, thus it might be adapted. The alternate_costume is replaced by casual in this case.
The idea of adapted_costume is "you can see the influence of original clothes". As long as that idea is present, there's no criteria to exclude the tag.
zatchii said: Would Suwako in post #472328 be adapted merely because of the the hat and colour scheme?
The color scheme may look alike to original, but overall the clothes are so ordinary that only casual tag is sufficient. I don't think someone looking for adapted_costume would really have this in mind.
Touhou hat is part of the girl so it doesn't count. =b
That's not what I meant. The replacement of alternate_costume should be a tag that describes generic costume theme, not just a piece in wardrobe. I named a few in forum #52617.
I agree post #796738 is correct as it is (alternate_costume).
zatchii said: I'm dubious that there can be a clear separation between adapted and alternate, especially if posts like post #754029, count as adapted. Do you have any examples to illustrate where the line should be drawn? Would Suwako in post #472328 be adapted merely because of the the hat and colour scheme?
I think what counts in adapted_costume is that you recognize a disctinctive design feature of the character that makes the outfit somewhat unique. On post #472328, Suwako's outfit is definitely too common to apply. I would have thought otherwise if her overalls were purple, or if she had a frog print or shape somewhere. post #754029 is fine imho.
zatchii said: So excluding everything in tag group:attire? I see the point about pollution, but that's a lot of tags to search if I just want a character in all non-standard outfit.
We'd need to define what is considered an outfit first. If you expect to find e.g. swimsuits, school uniforms, underwear and aprons under the same tag, that'd be troublesome given how undertagged alternate_costume would be then. If you're looking for something in particular you should be using the specific tag(s). And if you want everything, then I think having a glance at tag group:attire would actually be a good way to start.
Of course having everything compartmentalized would be a nightmare for small copyrights, where a single tag would have been more convenient (we could still decide to apply exceptions for those anyway). However I find the current system (main content split between major categories) to be a good compromise. These categories should be mentionned in alternate_costume's wiki anyway (japanese_clothes, casual, dress, etc.).
I think the pants → skirt switch is important enough to warrant something about the costume. I grant you that given other characters' clothes, contemporary is questionable (I do think it works though). It doesn't really look casual, and it seems too simple to count as an actual costume (which is why I went with contemporary - to me she looks like she's getting ready for business or something). I guess they all more or less fit on this one anyway.
I agree that it's not adapted_costume, however, tags like this may be so hard to find for most users that I would add alternate_costume for better visibility. The tank_top alone could warrant alternate_costume as you don't know what she could wear under her coat (and because she's considered clothed here).
Cyberia-Mix said: The tank_top alone could warrant alternate_costume as you don't know what she could wear under her coat (and because she's considered clothed here).
I believe that there needs to be a (original/canon) costume to begin with before you can have alternate versions of it. And a tank top is casual.
S1eth said: I believe that there needs to be a (original/canon) costume to begin with before you can have alternate versions of it.
alternate_costume here is just being a helper, because it's bound to remain the default tag when you're lacking of better ones.
S1eth said: And a tank top is casual.
The way I see it, casual when you wear nothing with it. But she does here. Without the jacket I'd have gone for casual. But once again maybe you want both tags here anyway. That said I wouldn't mind casual alone, as long as there's something to make this post easier to find.
Cyberia-Mix said: We'd need to define what is considered an outfit first. If you expect to find e.g. swimsuits, school uniforms, underwear and aprons under the same tag, that'd be troublesome given how undertagged alternate_costume would be then.
I'd say school uniforms and swimsuits constitute their own type of costume. A character wearing a swimsuit who doesn't do so canonically should be given the swimsuit tag, not the alternate costume tag.
Just putting an apron on over the character's usual outfit doesn't constitute an alternate costume, or even an adapted costume; it's just a minor addition to the same old same old.
post #683791: It's her usual outfit, just with a not-usually-visible undergarment (which could be presumed to always be there, theoretically) exposed. If that's an alternate costume, then so is nearly every wardrobe malfunction, and that's just an absurdity. casual is probably okay, though.
How's about maid? I think this is a pretty generic one too, but currently any post with enmaided will implicate "maid" and "alternate_costume", making it impossible to clean up this territory. This particular case made me hesitate to remove alternate_costume from other generic costumes such as "school_uniform", "military_uniform", "nurse", etc.
After thinking about it, "alternate_costume" tag is informative and should not be removed from posts. E.g. noobs wouldn't know post #799953 has alternated the character's clothes.
Woah, woah, woah, wait, hold the phone. I'm seeing people talk of removing alternate_costume from characters alternate costumes because...there are specific subsets of alternate_costume that the alternate costume fits into? I can't be the only one that thinks that's absurd, especially given our precedent for umbrellas and implications. This is a problem I touched on in the past, so I'm glad it's getting more discussion, but actively campaigning to limit the amount of information in a metadata system is not the answer.
It may be that we need to really re-examine the vocabulary we use to describe these things and scrap much of it.
sgcdonmai said: post #683791: It's her usual outfit, just with a not-usually-visible undergarment (which could be presumed to always be there, theoretically) exposed. If that's an alternate costume, then so is nearly every wardrobe malfunction, and that's just an absurdity. casual is probably okay, though.
I'm not sure I agree. wardrobe_malfunction is more like pantyshot in terms of its context. You don't choose to go to the store wearing a wardrobe malfunction; you choose an alternate mode of dress for whatever reason and...well, bad things happen.
Hmmmmmm, good question. If it's normal, appropriate attire for the time and place I might not tag it. I suppose it depends in part on the character, which gets into a bit of meta knowledge.
So the K-ON! girls in a yukata at an onsen wouldn't be alternate costume, because they wear a large variety of clothes throughout the series already an there's really nothing weird about it.
If it were, uhhh... the Rozen Maiden dolls let's say, then I might think harder about it. Still might not do it though... not sure.
