I meant post #594041 should go in Clever. The others, Creative, sure why not.
Posted under General
I meant post #594041 should go in Clever. The others, Creative, sure why not.
Hijacking the thread a bit, but since we have so many alternate_* tags, could we also have aliases with alternative_* for all of them, for those of us using English and not American?
葉月 said:
Hijacking the thread a bit, but since we have so many alternate_* tags, could we also have aliases with alternative_* for all of them, for those of us using English and not American?
Done
It seems it didn't take effect fully. Probably cross-server propagation issues or something, but empirically tagging alternative_hairstyle doesn't trigger the alias, even though it's listed on the tag's page.
葉月 said:
It seems it didn't take effect fully. Probably cross-server propagation issues or something, but empirically tagging alternative_hairstyle doesn't trigger the alias, even though it's listed on the tag's page.
Used the "fix" option on all the "alternative" tags, but the success rate of that seems to be pretty low so I can't promise much.
jxh2154 said:
Used the "fix" option on all the "alternative" tags, but the success rate of that seems to be pretty low so I can't promise much.
I believe that the fix option fixes any currently mistagged posts, but it does not clear the alias cache.
That means it can be useful in a situation of "it works now, but there are still posts with the old tag", but it unfortunately won't fix the misbehaviour by itself.
I think your best bet would be deleting and recreating the alias, which does clear the cache.
I recently noticed that, in addition to the
pool #1628 - Touhou - Fancy Winged Flandre, there is a
pool #3165 - Touhou - Fancy Winged Nue
At that time, I thought:
If this applies to multiple character, we could create a alternate_wings or adapted_wings tag, so I typed "alternate" to find out that we not only already have such a tag, but that most tags in the Flandre pool are already tagged with it.
Thinking "why would we need to make exceptions for those 2 characters", I searched and found this thread.
Some numbers:
348 posts : flandre_scarlet alternate_wings
336 posts : pool:1628
348 posts : flandre_scarlet alternate_wings
- 310 posts : pool:1628 alternate_wings
038 posts (that are not both tagged and in the pool)
Cyberia-Mix said:
It's not just any alternate design but explicitely the most original ones. I would need to clean the majority of the pool right now.
Can I expect a cleanup or is the pool really just character x + alternate_wings?
A very similar case, so I'll post here:
Doesn't the existence of alternate_weapon make pool #2318 - Touhou - Utsuho's Fancy Cannon redundant?
Updated
S1eth said:
A very similar case, so I'll post here:Doesn't the existence of alternate_weapon make pool #2318 - Touhou - Utsuho's Fancy Cannon redundant?
I think that ornate and similar tags could, yeah, but I always figured that such a pool still has a purpose.
Anelaid said:
I think that ornate and similar tags could, yeah, but I always figured that such a pool still has a purpose.
How though? S1eth did point out alternate_weapon makes most, if not all the images on pool #2318 redundant
Bumping this, because we now have four pools of this, and I'm not sold on why the tags aren't good enough.
When a character who canonically has wings is depicted with a different or uncommon depiction of their wings.
When a character's signature weapon is depicted in any form other than what has been shown in canon.
Unlike the other pools, Flandre's is supposed to be for parodies/hijacks, not so much for redesigns.
By parody/hijack I mean jokes and creative concepts that refer to the original design, where by redesign I mean mere upgrades or variations with little to no concept change from the original.
This distinction is lost if the pool is deleted because alternate_wings covers both.
Looking for such design hijack posts in the other pools, Komachi currently has none (doubt she ever will), Utsuho has post #1234347 (though that seems hardly clever), and Nue has post #686124 (not sure where that's coming from but fine), and post #601832.
I can see all of these in a global "design feature hijack" pool, which like I said last time is bound to be dominated by Flandre since her design is easier to exploit.
Also, I guess alternate_weapon needs rework. I figure out it should mean alternate weapon type, like Utsuho with a sword (post #1046873, post #851670), and not simply an adapted or improved version of the regular weapon.
Updated
Cyberia-Mix said:
Unlike the other pools, Flandre's is supposed to be for parodies/hijacks, not so much for redesigns.
It is certaily not used that way. Even when looking at the first page and the initial posts you added, I'd consider post #587295 and post #583390 to be redesigns. The "parodies/hijacks" in the pool seem to be limited to "let's change the crystals to something else for comedic purposes".
....and post #594041 is something completely different.
All the images need to be tagged alternate_wings anyway. The pool could at least be limited to it's original purpose.
Cyberia-Mix said:
Also, I guess alternate_weapon needs rework. I figure out it should mean alternate weapon type, like Utsuho with a sword (post #1046873, post #851670), and not simply an adapted or improved version of the regular weapon.
The wiki definition is good, only the name is ambiguous and may need to be changed.
S1eth said:
The wiki definition is good, only the name is ambiguous and may need to be changed.
Also elaborate_wings might be a good idea. I think there's a difference between drawing Flandre with modified standard wings and Flandre with a different kind of wings, like angel_wings, where alternate_wings would apply.
Updated
S1eth said:
It is certaily not used that way. Even when looking at the first page and the initial posts you added, I'd consider post #587295 and post #583390 to be redesigns. The "parodies/hijacks" in the pool seem to be limited to "let's change the crystals to something else for comedic purposes".
Well, the distinction I make is pretty difficult to put into words. I tried having an exhaustive look at the pool and Flandre's other alternate_wings posts to help me clarify my thoughts.
I guess one way to put it is the idea of "added meaning".
post #320828 is a good example to illustrate this.
The design of the wings is a little different from the original, but by itself, it doesn't bear a much of a meaning, and I would count the image in the "redesign" category.
However, because you can associate it with Flandre crying, there it gets a meaning. The design is "hijacked" from its solely decorative function to express an idea.
Where you draw the line between redesign and hijack depends on how expressive the new design appears to you, which is indeed subjective.
Here are some posts I consider simple redesigns, for lacking meaning, including being plain upgrades of the original: post #1254566, post #188394, post #264764, post #1296255, post #745692, post #387818, post #542811, post #709033, post #1159919, post #374828, post #780018, post #574300, post #982743.
post #745692 is unusually weird, but it's nothing more than random shapes.
post #387818 has an elaborate pattern, but then again it's random. The shape itself evokes Laevatein's head, but since this symbol already belongs to the character, I don't count the idea as an actual gain.
Now for expressive reuses of the design:
post #587295 trades the crystals for feathers, which evokes the idea of a bird. One could argue the art is too sketchy to consider them actual feathers, but I think the idea is there.
post #583390 expresses the idea of a flower blooming.
post #1069354 turns the wings' supports into living branches, with blooming flowers. You can see the crystals aren't used here.
post #1075879 is another variation of this idea.
post #419074 - I can't tell what it is but I suppose it's related to the cosplay.
post #443207 evokes a fruit tree. The rainbow order component is lost but the structure is still the same as the original.
post #378086 - Stars. Unlike the drop design from post #320828, I think stars, like hearts, already hold a rich symbolism by themselves, in such a way that the viewer is assured to find a meaning in any context.
post #959970 - Flowers and crosses. The symbolism is amplified by the fact the wings are figurative rather than physical (we somewhat enter the joke area where the design isn't to be taken seriously).
post #1294117 - The shapes themselves don't tell much (sparkles and drops), but their layout suggests a meaning. The way they're suspended like little shiny decorations, they may evoke glitter, to complete the general fluffiness and girliness of the character already expressed by the other elements in the image. The left-right layout may also express an ambivalent personality torn between joy and sadness.
post #884984 - Swords. She can pick them up from her wings to fight. Without this context they'd be meaningless.
post #108838 - Of course, jokes still belong here, providing they involve some transformation.
And finally on questionable things:
post #594041 - No design change. For lack of a more speficic pool for design based jokes not involving changes, it's just "clever".
post #516718 - Swords again. They're related to the large one in the background, which itself has no apparent meaning. So back to start.
post #667384 - Angel wings are fine, but the original structure (sticks + objects) is no more. The color reference has little importance imo.
post #869395 suggests feather wings, but it's so alike the original I would just consider it an upgrade.
post #441751 - No design change, and since her wings are still here one could argue even alternate_wings is wrong.
post #964346 - Beats me. I want to think the support was removed for visibility, but there might be an actual meaning behind than I'm unable to think of.
Does this reasoning make sense?