True fact, US Navy aircrews sometimes called the SB2C Helldiver the Son of a Bitch 2nd Class because of how hard it was to control compared to the Dauntless

MajorAmiruddin said:

True fact, US Navy aircrews sometimes called the SB2C Helldiver the Son of a Bitch 2nd Class because of how hard it was to control compared to the Dauntless

That was really about the first versions which were underpowered and unrefined though. Once a better engine and some aerodynamic refinements were fitted it performed fine and aside from a quirk or two (Which all aircraft of that era tended to have) wasn't particularly worse then anything else in the air group. Really it gets an largely undeserved reputation in general in my view based on the underwhelming first batch that was was pushed forward perhaps before it was fully ready for prime time due to pressing wartime demand.

Many of the initial problems where of the navy's own making when they demanded slews of design changes that resulted in huge weight bloat which caused the aforementioned under-powered condition, and then rather then hold off until a better plant could be fitted pushed it forward anyway (seemingly for political reasons since the program was under some pressure to produce results). The underlying airframe though was not really flawed with about the only intrinsic flaw that could be cited being that the plane was a bit stubby and so longitudinal stability wasn't the greatest, but this was hard to avoid since the navy demanded a shorter length to fit in service elevators while still wanting more power and a greater payload which demanded a larger overall aircraft. (The Japanese for a number of their later designs simply accepted that they would be unusable on earlier ships due to their size, although in the end that proved somewhat moot since all those carriers were sunk by the time they arrived anyway...)

The problem is that many writer seem to look at the problems with the first batch pushed forward quickly and then just ignore the major improvements and later impact of the design. It would be like if they judged the T-34 on the fact that many of the first hurriedly deployed models exploded their own engines and transmissions trying to reach the combat zone. Once the refined models arrived in early 1944 the SB2C surpassed the SBD in all aspects. In point of fact in the end the Navy took about 4,900 SBD, but it ended up with 7,100 SB2Cs. Helldiver destroyed more Japanese shipping then SBD ever did and may have destroyed more shipping in general then any other single type during the war.

It never had a "Midway" though to secure it's fame like the SBD (which was hardly without it's problems) did and so it's more 'work a day' contribution to ultimately destroying the Japanese Navy and Merchant Marine in the pacific tends to be glossed over.

Tk3997 said:

That is the problem of writters, they never made a proper research before throwing stuff about a plane or tank's models. Since many of them had various models or sub-variants that shows the difference in modification etc.

Tk3997 said:
It (SB2C Helldiver) never had a "Midway" though to secure it's fame like the SBD (which was hardly without it's problems)....

Agreed. In fact, the U.S. Army Air Forces version of the SBD Dauntless (designated the A-24 Banshee) was a disaster compared to the Navy version. In fact, at the Battle of Midway, many Marine Corps SBDs were shot down because of incorrect technique (due to transition to the SBD which resulted in lack of training). Finally, four squadrons SBD Dauntless, TBD Devastators and F4F Wildcats arrived simultaneously along with two squadrons of TBD Devastators arriving in a different direction, forcing the A6M Zeros to concentrate on the TBD Devastators and leave the SBD Dauntless unopposed.

Just wrapping up the translation with the help of my friend Google and I would like to note that I am not surprised that Curtis-Wright folded after the kind of development hell that this thing went through.

Eboreg said:

Just wrapping up the translation with the help of my friend Google and I would like to note that I am not surprised that Curtis-Wright folded after the kind of development hell that this thing went through.

it wasnt just the problems with the sb2c, but all curtis's products that wasnt the p40. they also produced no more then 400 p47g's over a short time that both republic plants out produced them by an embarrassing amount that the air corps told them to stop. and the there was the navys float plane replacements. though you could blame the seamew failing on the engine having problems that are hard to find these days

This was caused by the US Navy's requirement that the Helldiver be short enough to fit in a carrier's aircraft elevator

Actually, the requirement was that two of these planes could be fitted in the elevator simultaneously, allegedly for faster launches. But eventually, such a method was never used in the field and meanwhile the SB2C was left plagued by useless stability issues...

I know only one other example of similar stupid requirement that plagued several aircrafts from the designing board for nothing: Every Luftwaffe's multi-engine plane must be able to perform dive-bombing attacks. Ja, even the Heinkel He177 heavy strategic bomber! Genius!

Razorback20 said:

Actually, the requirement was that two of these planes could be fitted in the elevator simultaneously, allegedly for faster launches. But eventually, such a method was never used in the field and meanwhile the SB2C was left plagued by useless stability issues...

That... might be my mistake.

I wouldn't know, I just used Google Translate because this series was languishing without any translation and I don't know any Japanese.