That, and Marie Antoinette didn't even say those words. It came from Jean-Jacques Rousseau's autobiography which he supposedly quoted from a "great princess."
Marie Antoinette was 9 years old at the time Rousseau's books were written.
That, and Marie Antoinette didn't even say those words. It came from Jean-Jacques Rousseau's autobiography which he supposedly quoted from a "great princess."
Marie Antoinette was 9 years old at the time Rousseau's books were written.
And you would think that if she did indeed say those words, she should be excused because she was 9 years old, for God's sake!
And you would think that if she did indeed say those words, she should be excused because she was 9 years old, for God's sake!
Agreed.
She wasn't even a princess back then, much less a "great princess" of her time. If my research is correct, Rousseau didn't even know she existed when his book was written. Marie Antoinette arrived in France until about 5 years after his first six books were written - at the age of 14.
That, and the saying was already a hundred years old by the time he quoted it in his book.
In general, the wives/daughters of despised monarchs were roundly vilified in their day. To say something bad about the king was against the law, and being open about such things gave anyone within earshot who didn't like you all the excuse they needed to have you brought to trial and possibly even executed. Talk shit about the king's relatives, however...
The same can be said of Lucretia Borgia, as well, who gets a rap as the wickedest woman who ever lived because she's the daughter of one of the most corrupt popes to ever use the church as a bargaining chip for getting his son onto as many thrones as possible. Since he needed political marriages, and only had one daughter, well, why not just re-use his daughter by murdering or annulling any marriages that live past their usefulness and marry her off again? Who cares what she thinks about this, she's just a bargaining chip woman.
Then again, Marie Antoinette doesn't really have room to complain too much. If she's played as the genuinely innocent naive girl who was brought into a decadent court just before it collapsed, then it raises questions as to why she even qualifies to be a servant in the first place.
In general, the wives/daughters of despised monarchs were roundly vilified in their day. To say something bad about the king was against the law, and being open about such things gave anyone within earshot who didn't like you all the excuse they needed to have you brought to trial and possibly even executed. Talk shit about the king's relatives, however...
The same can be said of Lucretia Borgia, as well, who gets a rap as the wickedest woman who ever lived because she's the daughter of one of the most corrupt popes to ever use the church as a bargaining chip for getting his son onto as many thrones as possible. Since he needed political marriages, and only had one daughter, well, why not just re-use his daughter by murdering or annulling any marriages that live past their usefulness and marry her off again? Who cares what she thinks about this, she's just a bargaining chip woman.
Then again, Marie Antoinette doesn't really have room to complain too much. If she's played as the genuinely innocent naive girl who was brought into a decadent court just before it collapsed, then it raises questions as to why she even qualifies to be a servant in the first place.
Marie in her earlier years was basicly an innocent naïve girl who's "restraing bolts" was loosend too early and as a result overspent her personal fund (money gained from taxing already suffering cevilians) more often then not. While Marie in her later years started acting more mature, by then Robespierre and people with similar ambitions had gotten into a position to take avantage of those with even less commen sense then most versarien nobles - Yes that's possible - (such as Jeanne de Valois-Saint-Rémy) to stage a Coup.
In general, the wives/daughters of despised monarchs were roundly vilified in their day. To say something bad about the king was against the law, and being open about such things gave anyone within earshot who didn't like you all the excuse they needed to have you brought to trial and possibly even executed. Talk shit about the king's relatives, however...
Something continued with those poor wretches of pseudo-monarchs, presidents and such people: I have yet to come across an American First Lady not roundly abused by some screamers. And they are nearly all innocuous, rather dull women who have not interfered with their husband's work at all.
Something continued with those poor wretches of pseudo-monarchs, presidents and such people: I have yet to come across an American First Lady not roundly abused by some screamers. And they are nearly all innocuous, rather dull women who have not interfered with their husband's work at all.
Well, there's a gap between "some people" and "how history primarily remembers them". There are some partisans so fervent they loathe Laura Bush simply for being married to George W., but that isn't how the history books are written.
If you go back to First Ladies of more than a generation ago, the way history is handed down to anyone who didn't live through the moment leaves them only as historical curiosities if people know anything about them at all; a general whitewashing of history to heroify the likes of Jackie Kennedy, and a dismissal of Nancy Reagan's interest in the occult as a silly note of interest.
As I stated before, the problem she has is "Let them eat cake!" is pretty much the ONLY thing most people know about Marie Antoinette. She wouldn't be noteworthy at all without it. (Hell, more people know who Marie Antoinette was than her husband who was the actual reining monarch of what was at the time the world's most powerful empire overthrown in the whole affair.)
Even worse, most portrayals of Lucrezia Borgia in anything that isn't trying to actively dispel the rumors of her life show her as a raging psychopath and incestuous slut who was willing to sleep with and/or murder (not necessarily in that order) anyone to make her otou-san or onii-san happy. (Of course, she has the misfortune of being related to the Pope so flagrantly corrupt that he's considered one of the primary reasons for the backlash against church corruption that led to the Protestant Reformation. Plus, he was also followed up by a Pope who loathed him with the blazing passions of a million hateful suns and overtly forced "confessions" under torture of Borgia servants to fabricate accusations of murder, adultery, and incest against a family already rife with rumors of those same activities.)
Marie in her earlier years was basicly an innocent naïve girl who's "restraing bolts" was loosend too early and as a result overspent her personal fund (money gained from taxing already suffering cevilians) more often then not. While Marie in her later years started acting more mature, by then Robespierre and people with similar ambitions had gotten into a position to take avantage of those with even less commen sense then most versarien nobles - Yes that's possible - (such as Jeanne de Valois-Saint-Rémy) to stage a Coup.
To add onto that, Marie was an Austrian. Worse, she was an Austrian with the blood of the Hapsburgs in her veins. Nowadays, we don't really consider France and Austria to be arch-enemies, but the hate was intense back then. There were revolutionary politicians whose entire platform can be summarized as "we need to preemptively kill the Austrians before they kill us". Oh, and the Affair of the Diamond Necklace didn't help either.
In the Affair of the Diamond Necklace, Louis XV commissioned an intolerably expensive diamond necklace for his mistress, but died before it was finished. Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette refused to buy the necklace. During this time, a group of scammers had convinced Cardinal de Rohan that Marie secretly loved him and wanted him to buy the necklace for her using forged love letters. Cardinal de Rohan told the diamond makers it was for Marie when he bought the necklace. The diamond makers told Marie about the purchase, and Marie had them all arrested. While modern historians believe it was all the fault of independent scammers, the French public at the time believed it was all Marie's Keikaku. They believed Marie was an evil Austrian who wanted to destroy the romantic Cardinal de Rohan while receiving a decadent diamond necklace on someone else's budget.
Also, she was heavily involved the firing of Finance Minister Jacques Necker. While Necker would later be revealed to have completely failed to bring France out of debt, the French public believed Necker was the savior of the French budget. Necker used accounting tricks to hide problems in the budget, but when the truth was revealed during the revolution, the public initially blamed Marie's excesses instead of the "genius" Necker and his "perfect" math. When the truth finally came out, it was too late. Marie's reputation as a profligate was too large to be removed by something as silly as the truth.
As for actual faults during the revolution, Marie's only problem was being convinced that God would let them turn back the clock with no real consequences. Instead putting all their chips on the constitutional monarchists of the Feuillants Club, their stubbornness helped lead to the domination of the Jacobin Club and their own execution. This is no great fault of Marie's, since more worldly French nobles made the same mistake and gave the same advice to Louis XVI.
To add onto that, Marie was an Austrian. Worse, she was an Austrian with the blood of the Hapsburgs in her veins. Nowadays, we don't really consider France and Austria to be arch-enemies, but the hate was intense back then. There were revolutionary politicians whose entire platform can be summarized as "we need to preemptively kill the Austrians before they kill us". Oh, and the Affair of the Diamond Necklace didn't help either.
In the Affair of the Diamond Necklace, Louis XV commissioned an intolerably expensive diamond necklace for his mistress, but died before it was finished. Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette refused to buy the necklace. During this time, a group of scammers had convinced Cardinal de Rohan that Marie secretly loved him and wanted him to buy the necklace for her using forged love letters. Cardinal de Rohan told the diamond makers it was for Marie when he bought the necklace. The diamond makers told Marie about the purchase, and Marie had them all arrested. While modern historians believe it was all the fault of independent scammers, the French public at the time believed it was all Marie's Keikaku. They believed Marie was an evil Austrian who wanted to destroy the romantic Cardinal de Rohan while receiving a decadent diamond necklace on someone else's budget.
Also, she was heavily involved the firing of Finance Minister Jacques Necker. While Necker would later be revealed to have completely failed to bring France out of debt, the French public believed Necker was the savior of the French budget. Necker used accounting tricks to hide problems in the budget, but when the truth was revealed during the revolution, the public initially blamed Marie's excesses instead of the "genius" Necker and his "perfect" math. When the truth finally came out, it was too late. Marie's reputation as a profligate was too large to be removed by something as silly as the truth.
As for actual faults during the revolution, Marie's only problem was being convinced that God would let them turn back the clock with no real consequences. Instead putting all their chips on the constitutional monarchists of the Feuillants Club, their stubbornness helped lead to the domination of the Jacobin Club and their own execution. This is no great fault of Marie's, since more worldly French nobles made the same mistake and gave the same advice to Louis XVI.
The idiot I mentioned (Jeanne) WAS the one who broke the camels back with the whole "Diamond Necklace Affair" Stunt. Didn't know about Jacques though. I know he was fired but not because of imcompetence. I THINK A documentary I watched - Can't remember which one - said it was because of something else but I don't remember what.
The idiot I mentioned (Jeanne) WAS the one who broke the camels back with the whole "Diamond Necklace Affair" Stunt. Didn't know about Jacques though. I know he was fired but not because of imcompetence. I THINK A documentary I watched - Can't remember which one - said it was because of something else but I don't remember what.
Jacques Necker was not fired because of his financial incompetence. But when your whole plan is to waste borrowed money in fancy ways to convince your debtors that France was still good for it, you have to admit his plan was incompetent. Sure, France can get easy loans since people believe the treasury is full. (He reported that the French government was running a surplus of 12 million livres a year, but they were actually losing 70 million livres a year) But you can't keep up the lie forever, though the lie did last longer than Necker's job, and it lasted long enough for Necker to book it to Geneva.
NWSiaCB said:Then again, Marie Antoinette doesn't really have room to complain too much. If she's played as the genuinely innocent naive girl who was brought into a decadent court just before it collapsed, then it raises questions as to why she even qualifies to be a servant in the first place.
It's a year or more late, but this point you brought up is especially poignant after the first Lostbelt chapter came out.
We see Antonio Salieri as a monstrous Avenger class Servant, solely because of the unfounded rumors that he had Mozart killed, and the game even acknowledged that, without those rumors giving him some infamy, Salieri wouldn't even qualify as a Servant.
So why does Salieri get the Innocent Monster treatment, but we get Marie as she supposedly 'really was', when people really only know of her because of false rumors that painted her as an uncaring, spoiled brat?
It's a year or more late, but this point you brought up is especially poignant after the first Lostbelt chapter came out.
We see Antonio Salieri as a monstrous Avenger class Servant, solely because of the unfounded rumors that he had Mozart killed, and the game even acknowledged that, without those rumors giving him some infamy, Salieri wouldn't even qualify as a Servant.
So why does Salieri get the Innocent Monster treatment, but we get Marie as she supposedly 'really was', when people really only know of her because of false rumors that painted her as an uncaring, spoiled brat?
Considering Marie is a Caster who is sort of an "idol" or something, and since we know Servant Classes are often aspects of a figure's legend, what aspect of Marie's life or legend does the whole idol Caster thing represent?
Considering Marie is a Caster who is sort of an "idol" or something, and since we know Servant Classes are often aspects of a figure's legend, what aspect of Marie's life or legend does the whole idol Caster thing represent?
Most swimsuit classes aren't canon
Yeah I'd like "corrupted by historians" version of Marie as a Servant. Marie Alter, Avenger?
I NEVER SAID THAT!FrenchSorry, I'm illiterate.....In France, the poor have no bread to eat.You are eating cake, I'm not buying that.I can't believe you were like this!French HistoryIt must be a baseless rumor! Right, mon ami?If there is no bread, why don't they just eat cake?
This is a re-translation from Chinese to English, the more well known phrase is just "Let them eat cake."
