I think one of the reasons manga is overtaking western comics is that a manga series is written by one (or a few people) and their original stories and characters. A comic series just uses a handful of very weel-established characters, but is written by dozens of peple, sometimes simultaneously.

UserAccount said:

I think one of the reasons manga is overtaking western comics is that a manga series is written by one (or a few people) and their original stories and characters. A comic series just uses a handful of very weel-established characters, but is written by dozens of peple, sometimes simultaneously.

This. Wonder Woman is an infamous example - the reason nobody, not even the most fervent of comicbook nerds, can reliably name a supporting cast member for her other than Steve Trevor or a villain other than Circe/Ares/Cheetah, is because she gets a new writer every couple of years and every single goddamn one of them rotates out the entire supporting cast and most of the villains and what Diana spends most of her non-combat time doing in an effort to reinvent her. Nobody STAYS long enough to make a big impression except the biggest of big names. And that's not even getting into the tone or theme problem.

Contrst manga, where the stability of authorship lets supporting casts, bad guys, and themes to stay stable and continue to develop for as much as a decade and a half before their story arc ends.

Similarly, manga ends. Characters and plots get a solid story arc and then things MOVE ON, moving to a new generation if the series is popular enough to keep going, as opposed to resetting everything to the five-decade-long status quo and making all the story and character development pointless. Naruto gets the acknowledgement he always wanted and becomes Hokage, defeating the Rabbit Goddess once and for all, Bruce Wayne goes back to the Batcave to brood because he's not allowed to actually succeed at cleaning up Gotham and knows the Joker will just escape prison again next week.

HaroldRowsdower said:

This. Wonder Woman is an infamous example - the reason nobody, not even the most fervent of comicbook nerds, can reliably name a supporting cast member for her other than Steve Trevor or a villain other than Circe/Ares/Cheetah, is because she gets a new writer every couple of years and every single goddamn one of them rotates out the entire supporting cast and most of the villains and what Diana spends most of her non-combat time doing in an effort to reinvent her. Nobody STAYS long enough to make a big impression except the biggest of big names. And that's not even getting into the tone or theme problem.

Contrst manga, where the stability of authorship lets supporting casts, bad guys, and themes to stay stable and continue to develop for as much as a decade and a half before their story arc ends.

Similarly, manga ends. Characters and plots get a solid story arc and then things MOVE ON, moving to a new generation if the series is popular enough to keep going, as opposed to resetting everything to the five-decade-long status quo and making all the story and character development pointless. Naruto gets the acknowledgement he always wanted and becomes Hokage, defeating the Rabbit Goddess once and for all, Bruce Wayne goes back to the Batcave to brood because he's not allowed to actually succeed at cleaning up Gotham and knows the Joker will just escape prison again next week.

Egg Fu Yong! an evil male Mandarin Egg (no serious, it was a gigantic egg with a stereotypical chinese man's face complete with prehensile wire thing moustache), was a villain in Wonder woman comics!

HaroldRowsdower said:

This. Wonder Woman is an infamous example - the reason nobody, not even the most fervent of comicbook nerds, can reliably name a supporting cast member for her other than Steve Trevor or a villain other than Circe/Ares/Cheetah, is because she gets a new writer every couple of years and every single goddamn one of them rotates out the entire supporting cast and most of the villains and what Diana spends most of her non-combat time doing in an effort to reinvent her. Nobody STAYS long enough to make a big impression except the biggest of big names. And that's not even getting into the tone or theme problem.

Contrst manga, where the stability of authorship lets supporting casts, bad guys, and themes to stay stable and continue to develop for as much as a decade and a half before their story arc ends.

Similarly, manga ends. Characters and plots get a solid story arc and then things MOVE ON, moving to a new generation if the series is popular enough to keep going, as opposed to resetting everything to the five-decade-long status quo and making all the story and character development pointless. Naruto gets the acknowledgement he always wanted and becomes Hokage, defeating the Rabbit Goddess once and for all, Bruce Wayne goes back to the Batcave to brood because he's not allowed to actually succeed at cleaning up Gotham and knows the Joker will just escape prison again next week.

Her rogues gallery was never that big to begin with, and the villains who have some sort of interesting connection or reason to fight Diana were used most often because it made sense. Diana isn't the easiest character to write about. Her whole reason for existing is kind of a sign of the times. Female empowerment is at a all-time high right now, her message of girl power, and equality for women, and an icon in such a medium is kind of unnecessary now, women do dominate the workplace, they have had equal say in all matters across the board and maybe more so than should be allowed for one gender in America for like the last 30 or 40 years.

So unless Wonder Woman is going to become a permanent resident in South East Asia and fight against male dominance in Muslim societies, I don't think she's quite as relevant in her old fashion incarnation. I think it's one of the reason why she's gotten a push as more of the direct Warrior type now, than the peacemaker. Of the trinity, Diana is pushed as the quick to throw down member, who'd solve her conflicts directly and permanently (killing is NOT off the table for her.) and when you factor that in her rogues have to be immortals who for them death isn't necessarily the final nail in the coffin, hence people like Cheetah who's curse can be passed on to other individuals meaning there might always be a new Cheetah, and Ares who exist so long as War exist, and Circe who is a immortal witch in terms of never aging who can attack Diana from the safety of her island or where ever she holds up without personally getting within arms reach of her can keep coming back, and thus writers keep using them.

If a guy like General Ross from Marvel's hulk comics came after Diana repeatedly and as hard as he did the Hulk, she'd kill him, that's how well written Diana rolls, thus her rogue gallery is the smallest.

Guys,seriously,This artist is trying to create drama

Carlos8563 said:

Guys,seriously,This artist is trying to create drama

It's drama only when people start trying to cancel/Dox/ whatever the social media mobs do these days to other people.

the comments on this artist works from what I've seen cretes dicussion adn sharing of opinion. also chuckles. i find mos of the images funny amusing.

i'm waiting for the time when sharing an opinion is considered too LEWD for the public.

Honestly I actually would like manga more if they were in color (and no, coloring just the first few pages doesn't count).

Let_There_Be_House said:

Honestly I actually would like manga more if they were in color (and no, coloring just the first few pages doesn't count).

Eh. After flipping through some full-color webtoons, I think the black-and-white aesthetic is part of the distinctive charm of manga. Certain specific mangaka have a style that could be improved by having a colorist, but on the whole it would just clash with/overwhelm the stellar inking, lineart, and shading that is the hallmark of Japanese draftsmanship.
I’m not saying no manga should be in-color, but it definitely shouldn’t become the new standard.

Selvokaz said:

Her rogues gallery was never that big to begin with, and the villains who have some sort of interesting connection or reason to fight Diana were used most often because it made sense. Diana isn't the easiest character to write about. Her whole reason for existing is kind of a sign of the times. Female empowerment is at a all-time high right now, her message of girl power, and equality for women, and an icon in such a medium is kind of unnecessary now, women do dominate the workplace, they have had equal say in all matters across the board and maybe more so than should be allowed for one gender in America for like the last 30 or 40 years.

So unless Wonder Woman is going to become a permanent resident in South East Asia and fight against male dominance in Muslim societies, I don't think she's quite as relevant in her old fashion incarnation. I think it's one of the reason why she's gotten a push as more of the direct Warrior type now, than the peacemaker. Of the trinity, Diana is pushed as the quick to throw down member, who'd solve her conflicts directly and permanently (killing is NOT off the table for her.) and when you factor that in her rogues have to be immortals who for them death isn't necessarily the final nail in the coffin, hence people like Cheetah who's curse can be passed on to other individuals meaning there might always be a new Cheetah, and Ares who exist so long as War exist, and Circe who is a immortal witch in terms of never aging who can attack Diana from the safety of her island or where ever she holds up without personally getting within arms reach of her can keep coming back, and thus writers keep using them.

If a guy like General Ross from Marvel's hulk comics came after Diana repeatedly and as hard as he did the Hulk, she'd kill him, that's how well written Diana rolls, thus her rogue gallery is the smallest.

HaroldRowsdower said:

This. Wonder Woman is an infamous example - the reason nobody, not even the most fervent of comicbook nerds, can reliably name a supporting cast member for her other than Steve Trevor or a villain other than Circe/Ares/Cheetah, is because she gets a new writer every couple of years and every single goddamn one of them rotates out the entire supporting cast and most of the villains and what Diana spends most of her non-combat time doing in an effort to reinvent her. Nobody STAYS long enough to make a big impression except the biggest of big names. And that's not even getting into the tone or theme problem.

Contrst manga, where the stability of authorship lets supporting casts, bad guys, and themes to stay stable and continue to develop for as much as a decade and a half before their story arc ends.

Similarly, manga ends. Characters and plots get a solid story arc and then things MOVE ON, moving to a new generation if the series is popular enough to keep going, as opposed to resetting everything to the five-decade-long status quo and making all the story and character development pointless. Naruto gets the acknowledgement he always wanted and becomes Hokage, defeating the Rabbit Goddess once and for all, Bruce Wayne goes back to the Batcave to brood because he's not allowed to actually succeed at cleaning up Gotham and knows the Joker will just escape prison again next week.

Exactly. I love how manga is more narratively stable ( if thats a thing). Beginning, middle, end. Not infinte recons or the "sliding timeline" thing

Dwain said:

Exactly. I love how manga is more narratively stable ( if thats a thing). Beginning, middle, end. Not infinte recons or the "sliding timeline" thing

Yet there is no Manga that has continued for as long as say Diana/Wonder Woman has, it's just a matter of time. No author can live forever, and eventually, they want to end their works rather than let them be inconclusive, that being said look at Dragon Ball, that is what will likely happen to ongoing series that have reached that level of fame. When Toriyama dies Dragon Ball will continue, they've already chosen his successor in terms of narrative and art. What kept manga stories in the ratio of completed stories was that until recently where manga and anime have usurped the world as the fantasy genre for creative art/writing, manga didn't have the staying power that say comics used to have. Manga and the IPs they spawn are now a bigger business than they ever were before, with worldwide appeal. Look at how long Gundam has been around, even long after the original writer/artist had put it behind them, the series still continues with new iterations, new retellings, but the stories are almost always the same at their core "War". Western comics are no different, Manga is just catching up to what western comics have known for years, though in recent time with the war on "The Patriarchy" and "The War against the Western Society" comics have taken a downturn, but that's more because of social issues having creeped into the comic book landscape and thus killed it from within.

What annoys me is how people frame "western comics" as if it's only capeshit. If you just want to talk about the "biggest", sure, but we don't judge the manga medium exclusively on Weekly Shounen Jump series either.

Hell, even the capeshit can be good when you limit it to one writer and a singular overarching story, manga style, such as Image Comics' "Invincible".

BainBlow said:

What annoys me is how people frame "western comics" as if it's only capeshit. If you just want to talk about the "biggest", sure, but we don't judge the manga medium exclusively on Weekly Shounen Jump series either.

Hell, even the capeshit can be good when you limit it to one writer and a singular overarching story, manga style, such as Image Comics' "Invincible".

Well, there's an issue in itself. Most comics fall into the superhero genre, or some perversion of it, like Invincible or the Boys. Those that don't and are generally popular are some kind of zombie story, like Walking Dead or Crossed. There's very little genre variety. Scott Pilgrim was great, but there really hasn't been anything like it since, or at least nothing good enough to catch my attention. Manga has something for just about everyone, from the armchair philosopher to the war otaku to the amateur fighter.

Liszt6 said:

Well, there's an issue in itself. Most comics fall into the superhero genre, or some perversion of it, like Invincible or the Boys. Those that don't and are generally popular are some kind of zombie story, like Walking Dead or Crossed. There's very little genre variety. Scott Pilgrim was great, but there really hasn't been anything like it since, or at least nothing good enough to catch my attention. Manga has something for just about everyone, from the armchair philosopher to the war otaku to the amateur fighter.

Have you never read 2000AD? Dredd, ABC warriors, Slaine, Nemesis the Warlock?

Rocko1345 said:

Have you never read 2000AD? Dredd, ABC warriors, Slaine, Nemesis the Warlock?

And those all could be roped into the action genre. And they're not near as well known as superhero/zombie works, and when they are known, it's usually the adaptation, with the fact that it's originally a comic being more trivia than anything. Dredd in particular. Everyone just assumes it's a Stallone movie and don't realize it's even based on an existing franchise.

cd_young said:

Egg Fu Yong! an evil male Mandarin Egg (no serious, it was a gigantic egg with a stereotypical chinese man's face complete with prehensile wire thing moustache), was a villain in Wonder woman comics!

That sounds like something you'd hear from a porn parody series

HaroldRowsdower said:

This. Wonder Woman is an infamous example - the reason nobody, not even the most fervent of comicbook nerds, can reliably name a supporting cast member for her other than Steve Trevor or a villain other than Circe/Ares/Cheetah, is because she gets a new writer every couple of years and every single goddamn one of them rotates out the entire supporting cast and most of the villains and what Diana spends most of her non-combat time doing in an effort to reinvent her. Nobody STAYS long enough to make a big impression except the biggest of big names. And that's not even getting into the tone or theme problem.

Contrst manga, where the stability of authorship lets supporting casts, bad guys, and themes to stay stable and continue to develop for as much as a decade and a half before their story arc ends.

Similarly, manga ends. Characters and plots get a solid story arc and then things MOVE ON, moving to a new generation if the series is popular enough to keep going, as opposed to resetting everything to the five-decade-long status quo and making all the story and character development pointless. Naruto gets the acknowledgement he always wanted and becomes Hokage, defeating the Rabbit Goddess once and for all, Bruce Wayne goes back to the Batcave to brood because he's not allowed to actually succeed at cleaning up Gotham and knows the Joker will just escape prison again next week.

Well you deserve a cookie