The terrible drop rates of Genshin are one of several reasons why I fell off. Maybe I'm to used to Azur Lanes generosity.
Imo, Genshin's pity already makes it a pretty good gacha as at least you are guaranteed to get the character you want after 180 rolls. Compared to other gacha games like Arknights where its 50/50 for the banner character no matter how many 6*s you roll, or FGO where the rate is 1% no matter what and the only pity that exists requires you to have had rolled 5+ copies of a character 10 times.
Yeah, I saved for several months to get Baal but got Qiqi instead. Decided enough was enough and quit the game entirely.
WTF i saved for Baal for just a couple months and got even her weapon, you need to do your dailies and events dude, login isn't saving. Those who have complains about genshin rates must be newbies in gacha games...
The terrible drop rates of Genshin are one of several reasons why I fell off. Maybe I'm to used to Azur Lanes generosity.
I'm also too used to Azur Lane's generosity, I have ALL gacha characters at the moment, with exception of two collab characters. (And World 13 drops, I can't win at all in World 13...) And I never had to buy cubes. (But I did invest quite a bit of money in skins...)
Going on a tangent, for Umamusume players, are the gacha rates bad or good? I suffered a lot to get Meisho Doto, but Eishin Flash came easily...
WTF i saved for Baal for just a couple months and got even her weapon, you need to do your dailies and events dude, login isn't saving. Those who have complains about genshin rates must be newbies in gacha games...
I've tried a lot of gacha games. 0.6% for a 5★ and 180 pulls to guarantee the banner character is pretty damn bad. Sure, it's nice to have pity at all, but let's not pretend like Genshin's rates aren't god awful. Lots of gacha games have relatively nice rates, Genshin is definitely on the lower end rates-wise, saved only by virtue of having a pity system at all. Banners being split between weapons and characters doesn't help matters.
As I see it, all Gacha is bad as it essentially forces you to gamble in order to get the character you want. As someone who's been playing games for over 2 decades, this is simply unacceptable to me. Regular games like, say, Fallout: New Vegas, don't nickel and dime you in order to get companions, you just have to unlock them by playing the game.
Its such a shame too, since I would love to play Genshin Impact, but I don't want to grind like mad OR gamble in order to be powerful and play as characters I want to play. If the 1.0 content was $60 and 2.0 $20, that would be perfectly fair to me. or if they still want to keep the game free, then a flat price per character is also cool. I, personally, would pay like $10 for Diluc.
what are the rates there? In Destiny Child are 100% for new characters.
SSR/Gold/5 Star ships had a drop rate of 7%, 13% for SR/Purple/4 star ships, 50% for Rare/Blue/3 Star ships, the rest for 2 star/Gray/Common ships. UR/Rainbow/6 Star ships have the lowest at... I think 0.5% but those only arrive during special events and they have a pity timer of 200 builds. As long as you don't constantly build heavily then the game throws the build currency, wisdom cubes, at you at a hilarious pace.
The best thing about the game is the balance. While yes some ships are just better then others there are videos out there with people beating the hardest content (Operation Siren, World 13) with Grey/Blue ships.
Another thing about azur lane is that just doing the dailies lets you do like 4 pulls every day, other gachas require you to play 2-3 days for a single pull.
Like for example in arknights just a single pull feels like a big investment for a f2p.
Another thing about azur lane is that just doing the dailies lets you do like 4 pulls every day, other gachas require you to play 2-3 days for a single pull.
Like for example in arknights just a single pull feels like a big investment for a f2p.
True, but Arknights tends to standardize pity rolls at least, offering a 5* in your first 10 rolls (and individual rolls count towards this too) and in Originium Dust, they linked Blitz and Frost together (as in, if you owned one, your next 5* on the banner will be the other one) and pitied Ash at 110 rolls. Was good to get all four members of Team Rainbow.
Imo, Genshin's pity already makes it a pretty good gacha as at least you are guaranteed to get the character you want after 180 rolls. Compared to other gacha games like Arknights where its 50/50 for the banner character no matter how many 6*s you roll, or FGO where the rate is 1% no matter what and the only pity that exists requires you to have had rolled 5+ copies of a character 10 times.
Only trouble is... the devs aren't yet that generous when giving out free rolls, so 180 rolls on this game is... well, you have to work really hard for it if you're not whaling.
And it's still a 50/50 thing on Genshin... which is pretty much the source of all sorrows there.
Only trouble is... the devs aren't yet that generous when giving out free rolls, so 180 rolls on this game is... well, you have to work really hard for it if you're not whaling.
And it's still a 50/50 thing on Genshin... which is pretty much the source of all sorrows there.
Well, it's 50/50 for the first 5* and guaranteed after if you didn't get the banner character.
Mihoyo is pretty stingy with primos I agree, but imo one of the beauty of gacha games is how hard it is to roll the characters you want. Like I dont really care that much about getting a SR on AL, but I'm extremely happy getting a single SSR in FGO because of the abysmal rates. The harder it is to get a character, the more better it feels to get them.
but imo one of the beauty of gacha games is how hard it is to roll the characters you want. Like I dont really care that much about getting a SR on AL, but I'm extremely happy getting a single SSR in FGO because of the abysmal rates. The harder it is to get a character, the more better it feels to get them.
...OR, rather than be forced to pay a ludicrous amount of money to get the character you want, they could make highly desired characters rewards for clearing the game's toughest challenges. There's no good reason, at least for the customer, to have to gamble in order to get desired content.
Well, it's 50/50 for the first 5* and guaranteed after if you didn't get the banner character.
Mihoyo is pretty stingy with primos I agree, but imo one of the beauty of gacha games is how hard it is to roll the characters you want. Like I dont really care that much about getting a SR on AL, but I'm extremely happy getting a single SSR in FGO because of the abysmal rates. The harder it is to get a character, the more better it feels to get them.
that is why is so addicting for people, the high is hard to give up if you dont have self control.
True, but Arknights tends to standardize pity rolls at least, offering a 5* in your first 10 rolls (and individual rolls count towards this too) and in Originium Dust, they linked Blitz and Frost together (as in, if you owned one, your next 5* on the banner will be the other one) and pitied Ash at 110 rolls. Was good to get all four members of Team Rainbow.
Something people frequently fail to consider in gacha is that rates aren't everything. You have to consider the importance of dupes, frequency of free pulls, the viability of welfares, the frequency and availability of new characters, and what else you can do with your currency.
For example, Fire Emblem Heroes has unbelievably generous rates, multiple pity systems, and a selector system. It has a fairly reasonable free drop rate, a monthly pass, and a consistent release schedule.
It sounds good until you realize you need 11 copies of any given character to max them out. Also at least 2 other likely high rarity or even outright limited character to give them proper skills. And then you reqlize that it's two weeks until the next stupidly OP character comes out. Also, much of the content is pvp.
As a result, I think Genshin is fairly middle of the road. Maybe lagging behind a bit, but not horribly.
...OR, rather than be forced to pay a ludicrous amount of money to get the character you want, they could make highly desired characters rewards for clearing the game's toughest challenges. There's no good reason, at least for the customer, to have to gamble in order to get desired content.
It's just a preference I guess, working for a character is nice, but there's also the charm of a character coming to you through the odds.
In the end, if you don't like the gacha you could always not play, or even if you failed to get the character you can try again next time.
Something people frequently fail to consider in gacha is that rates aren't everything. You have to consider the importance of dupes, frequency of free pulls, the viability of welfares, the frequency and availability of new characters, and what else you can do with your currency.
For example, Fire Emblem Heroes has unbelievably generous rates, multiple pity systems, and a selector system. It has a fairly reasonable free drop rate, a monthly pass, and a consistent release schedule.
It sounds good until you realize you need 11 copies of any given character to max them out. Also at least 2 other likely high rarity or even outright limited character to give them proper skills. And then you reqlize that it's two weeks until the next stupidly OP character comes out. Also, much of the content is pvp.
As a result, I think Genshin is fairly middle of the road. Maybe lagging behind a bit, but not horribly.
I think that perspective actually makes it worse. You need 7 copies of a Genshin character to max their Constellations(like Potentials from Arknights). Genshin doesn't have universal dupes like a lot of games have, either. Copies of the character are your only option, and at one guaranteed copy of a banner character and 0.6% for the other 6 copies, it's virtually impossible to max a limited character without obscene amounts of luck, money, or saving.
Even if you make the argument that Constellations aren't a necessity, they still exist and the performance level between a C0 and C6 character is often sizeable. I've even seen people insist that some characters are essentially unusable if they're not a certain C level, just because of how much of a difference it makes for some of them.
I have to admit gacha gaming IS certainly a kind of gambling, and looking in retrospect, I've already sunk quite a lot of money on rolls, which can be considered bad. At this point, I've spent more than 60 USD to get Meisho Doto on Umamusume and more 60 to get W in Arknights. I could've bought some great games on release with that money. But I don't regret it. It just so happens that the amount of sunken money makes it feel a waste not to play the game assiduously.
I see the compulsion getting worse as times pass, with the habit of sinking money on the games becoming more and more "normal" in my mind. Not to say I haven't spent money on other games, lately I've spent money on every gacha I played, sometimes even dropping the game not much later.
I mean, it's not a tangible reward for those rolls, and if (when) the game dies, my units are lost too. Money spent on nothing. I try to justify it to myself with dubious rationales, like "But I've spent more on Steam games I'll never play again"...
This whole conversation made me notice the deep hole I've been digging myself into, now I have to try and get out. Is there a Gacha Addicts Anonymous?
Joking apart, it's important to keep the gambling in check, it can spiral out of control.
The terrible drop rates of Genshin are one of several reasons why I fell off. Maybe I'm to used to Azur Lanes generosity.
I mean I'm free to play and my pulls have been great. The pity system is pretty nice but often I get a 5* before pity and have gotten every character I've wanted since release. Tartaglia, Ganyu, Eula, Hu Tao, and Raiden.
I think that perspective actually makes it worse. You need 7 copies of a Genshin character to max their Constellations(like Potentials from Arknights). Genshin doesn't have universal dupes like a lot of games have, either. Copies of the character are your only option, and at one guaranteed copy of a banner character and 0.6% for the other 6 copies, it's virtually impossible to max a limited character without obscene amounts of luck, money, or saving.
Even if you make the argument that Constellations aren't a necessity, they still exist and the performance level between a C0 and C6 character is often sizeable. I've even seen people insist that some characters are essentially unusable if they're not a certain C level, just because of how much of a difference it makes for some of them.
At the same time, however, it's fully single-player and you can clear nearly all content without ever pulling. I know because I did it. Spammed m1 with Lisa, Barbara healing, and sometimes Sucrose.
I have a friend who would be one of those people you mention at the end. But that level of meta-think is geared towards shaving 2.73 seconds off your abyss/domain clear time. That kind of mentality shouldn't be considered when judging the general fairness of a gacha. Otherwise, you get people memeing about FGO being the worst system as they desperately spend more money for NP3 Atalante because the internet told them she's OP when supported by two Skaði.
I'll admit I'm lucky in Genshin. Not because of any pulls or anything, my pull history in Genshin is entirely "5* only on pity, also I have no 5* characters", but because the #1 character I went in wanting was Lisa.
I have a friend who would be one of those people you mention at the end. But that level of meta-think is geared towards shaving 2.73 seconds off your abyss/domain clear time. That kind of mentality shouldn't be considered when judging the general fairness of a gacha. Otherwise, you get people memeing about FGO being the worst system as they desperately spend more money for NP3 Atalante because the internet told them she's OP when supported by two Skaði.
C6 Fischl is an absolute monster. Is she still good at C0? Absolutely, but her constellations still drastically improve her performance. C6 Barbara saves a party member from death. C6 Childe basically never has to leave melee stance. Constellations are not minor, inconsequential power boosts. In some cases they can even totally change how that character is played.
You can't just deny the effect it has on a player's experience just because they "can" clear content without it. It exists, and it provides an extremely potent incentive for players to roll, and spend, as much as they can, either for "Meta-think", or just because they want their favorite character to be as strong as possible. Made all the worse by the lack of any sort of alternative. The system is 100% designed to bleed money, which isn't even necessary because whales account for at least 80% of any gacha game's income anyway and they don't even need to be incentivized to do it.
At the same time, however, it's fully single-player and you can clear nearly all content without ever pulling. I know because I did it. Spammed m1 with Lisa, Barbara healing, and sometimes Sucrose.
To be fair, I believe you are the exception to the rule. F2P players seem to be the lower percentage of players, and even if the were the majority, they are not the company's target demographic. As you said, it's possible to play with the free units, and that's great, there are some games where the story mode is unbeatable without high end units.