Does anyone seriously buy the games for this, though? You aren't picking up S/V and expecting a Pokemon version of shokugeki no soma.
There are games with less of a budget than my weekly grocery bill and manage to make something more believable. And a multibillion dollar franchise can't do the same for a mainline entry?
Sure, but pokemon is the highest grossing media franchise of all time. Surely they could afford to do more
Maybe, if they did it MH style where the food is a texture swap (Rise), or is predetermined entirely (World), they could make it look fantastic (World's meals still make me drool). But instead, they not only made the different ingredients player dependent, the actual look of the Sandwich is too, right down to how you place the bread. Good fucking luck making that look good getting eaten from a model and standpoint. There was likely a deliberate choice to make meals more interactable at the expense of it looking good.
Aside from the bugs, I honestly feel that the Pokémon fanbase cannot be satisfied in general. They could make an actual BotW: Pokémon where you play as Link with a full team, and people would bitch that it doesn't have X or allow Y and compare it to the game they did like, or at least are looking at through serious rose colored glasses.
The games are too easy? They've always been easy, if you actually know how to play. Let's not pretend people didn't invent the Nuzlocke for no reason. They're glitchy? They've always been glitchy! Red and Blue had the easiest infinite item dupe I've ever seen, not to mention Missingno and other such "Pokémon". The graphics are bad? They're at least on par for what I would expect for a heavily stylized art style in an open world on the Switch, and the more detailed indoor/city textures are actually good. The trees people complained about in Sword and Shield- and make no mistake, the Wild Area in general was badly implemented- are actually decent now.
The bugs at least have a chance to be fixed this time around with patches. Though, if GF wants to avoid this in the future, they need to extend their development cycle by a year. But it sells like hotcakes, so I don't see that happening.
Bro, why are you bashing people for criticizing a game that deserves to be criticized? All of your arguments are strawmen. I very confidently remember being able to play through the first 5 generations of games without them falling apart at the seams. You can dupe items in GBY? Yeah, but you have to intentionally do it!
You know what you don't have to intentionally do in SV? Fall out of the world.
Red and Green were also the pet projects of the creator of the franchise. They didn't have the budget or manpower of current Gen games. Are we just not expecting people to learn from their mistakes? It's okay that SV is barely playable because the older games, which were far more than barely playable even at their worst, also had bugs? You know Red and Blue fixed a lot of the bugs present in the Japanese releases, right? And Yellow fixed several present in Red and Blue. And many of those bugs didn't appear in future games, or at least were more difficult to do.
SV is a trashfire of a game. It makes RBY look competent by comparison. It is devoid of polish even after you fix all the bugs. They couldn't even fucking manage real time animated screens for the video call with the Professor early in the game, something Half-Life 2 figured out.
People are making fun of the food making feature because it looks stupid, in a game riddled with unacceptable problems. It is the shit icing on a poorly optimized cake that looks like it should have been released 10+ years ago.
---Wall of Text--- I honestly feel that the Pokémon fanbase cannot be satisfied in general. They could make an actual BotW: Pokémon where you play as Link with a full team, and people would bitch that it doesn't have X or allow Y and compare it to the game they did like, or at least are looking at through serious rose colored glasses. ---Wall of Text---
Well, the more fans you have, the more difficult it will be to satisfy everyone, if not outright impossible, after all, people are different and want different things. For example, someone who plays mainly for the online battles and may even be a competitive player, will obviously want improvements to the Battle System (or want quicker/easier ways to train Pokémon into being competitive ready), however, me, on the other hand, couldn't care less about that, and instead want a greater sense of adventure and exploration, so much so that honestly, if they made a Pokémon puzzle game with minimal battling, that would be more up my alley, and I'm not even good at puzzle games, but I just want to be able to walk around with my Pokémon and have them be able to do more than only battling (yes, while I won't straight up defend HMs, I like them more than what we currently have)... In summary, what may be a great improvement for someone, can be worthless for someone else.
As for myself, I only want 3 things for the games in their current form (would be 4, but I know one of them will simply never happen): 1. Go back to SwSh art style, i.e. to anime art style; 2. Let me ride, fly, surf, dive, with my own Pokémon. I don't want a single Pokémon that does everything, I DON'T want a weird bike that also does everything, but I also certainly DON'T want to have to rent someone else's Pokémon (especially if I HAVE that same Pokémon); 3. Give each GYM Leader 8 teams, of which they will use depending on the number of badges the player have. 4. Bring back Mega Evolutions. Obviously, there's more stuff I want, but these are the bare minimum for me to buy another Pokémon game again (or they make something really amazing to make up for it, which I don't think they will).
blindVigil said:
Bro, why are you bashing people for criticizing a game that deserves to be criticized?
Because that's what a big chunk of the fanbase does.
My question is, why. Why is the production quality for Pokémon SO low? Why Pokémon and why are they several DECADES behind even other Nintendo properties? There are indie games for the GameCube that looks better.
They cut back on the Pokémon to increase the animations(this horse is dead by now, but I will say it’s name). Why is it STILL on levels that would look dated on the ps1?
Atelier, a series with much lower sales a budget and notoriety. And even dev time. A series that uses recycled generic models for 6 games now. That series has been leaps and bounds above Pokemon.
You’d think the 3d models would make it easier. They have shit tons of money. Why is it THIS bad.
The bugs at least have a chance to be fixed this time around with patches. Though, if GF wants to avoid this in the future, they need to extend their development cycle by a year. But it sells like hotcakes, so I don't see that happening.
So at least you agree the one important thing we're protesting. That GF clearly is putting easy and quick profits over making a quality product.
And yes, the fact that Pokemon is a franchise too big to fail at this point and that it will still top sales chart no matter how bad they make the games is a problem. Like for example I can vote with my wallet and not buy it, but that's just 1 less sale in the millions of other sales therefore it's extremely hard to make a difference this way. Voicing our opinion and keeping this discussion alive is a far easier method.
Maybe it will never work, who knows. Fossil corpo upper brass being out of touch from their employees and the products they sell is hardly a Pokemon-only problem and is extremely common among countless Japanese companies. But we can at least hope our voice will someday reach someone in Pokemon Company who actually cares, or someone who shares our opinion can actually join GF itself.
Ghost_H said:
2. Let me ride, fly, surf, dive, with my own Pokémon. I don't want a single Pokémon that does everything, I DON'T want a weird bike that also does everything, but I also certainly DON'T want to have to rent someone else's Pokémon (especially if I HAVE that same Pokémon); 3. Give each GYM Leader 8 teams, of which they will use depending on the number of badges the player have. 4. Bring back Mega Evolutions.
2. is tricky. Remember that the rent/ride thing started exactly because people were sick of needing to have HM slaves in order to just traverse the map. Sure they can replace it with "every flying/water/fighting Pokemon of certain size will automatically be able to do HM moves on the overworld by default", but even then I can still see people complaining that it will still mean their team-building options are limited because they're obligated to have these 3 types at all time. 3. Just judging from my own SV experience, while yes scaling Gym leaders so you can truly be able to tackle them in any order doesn't sound like a hard thing to do, the issue lies in having to also scale everything else in their vicinity. It wouldn't make sense to have a gym leader with lv15 Pokemon when there's Garchomps and T-Tars right outside their town. 4. I do wish they'd do away with these single gen only gimmicks. While I understand it makes the metagame constantly fresh, it kinda force them to stick to gimmicks that look cheap because the gimmicks themselves are meant to be disposable and any assets built for them will never make it to the next game. A similar argument can be made for these "nonstandard Pokemons" like UBs, Paradox formes and yes as much as we love them, Megas. They're meant to only stay in the one gen they're introduced because that's where they're actually given the plot to justify their existence. Sure you can just plop them into new games without any explanations and I guess that's fine, but do note that Pokemon is a game that's intended to be accessible for 6 years old who pick them up for the first time, so to suddenly have them go into the post-game and have these dozens of variants and extradimensional Pokemons dumped on them all at once would be overwhelming. Only the regional formes are passable with this since their explanation "they're from another country" is simple enough and doesn't include evolution/time/dimension-traveling BS.
2. is tricky. Remember that the rent/ride thing started exactly because people were sick of needing to have HM slaves in order to just traverse the map. Sure they can replace it with "every flying/water/fighting Pokemon of certain size will automatically be able to do HM moves on the overworld by default", but even then I can still see people complaining that it will still mean their team-building options are limited because they're obligated to have these 3 types at all time.
I knew if someone were to reply to me, they would mention number two being complicated, but honestly, I expected something animation related, so you really got me by surprise. Anyways, particularly, with the expection of Cut and Flash, I would always just use the HMs on the Pokémon I were actively using, but regardless, I'm aware that people didn't like HMs, so the natural suggestion would be what you mentioned... hm. Since Gen8 already brought the bike back and I doubt they will do another "Koraidon/Miraidon" for Gen10, just give people the option of using their rideable Pokémon, or buy/get the bike, them everyone is happy. In Gen6 they made those roller skates thingys, which was mostly redundant, so making such an option would certainly make more sense and please more people.
3. Just judging from my own SV experience, while yes scaling Gym leaders so you can truly be able to tackle them in any order doesn't sound like a hard thing to do, the issue lies in having to also scale everything else in their vicinity. It wouldn't make sense to have a gym leader with lv15 Pokemon when there's Garchomps and T-Tars right outside their town.
I don't know how well it would go, but my idea would be to, instead of having only weak Pokémon in certain areas, and only strong Pokémon in others, have them all mixed (much like how I assume the wild area was), but the quantity of stronger Pokémon would increase as the player get farther away for towns. So: In every towns' immediate surroundings = Mostly weak Pokémon (levels 5~15), a couple mid (16~30), and rarely stronger ones (level 30+); Far from towns, where there's less people = Mostly mid (20~40), some weak (20-), and a couple stronger (40+); In places where people rarely would go (deep in forests or caves) = Mostly strong (50+), some mid (35~49) and a couple weak (34-).
Something like this (i.e. near cities, in order to keep ordinary people safe, trainers and such would prevent the wild Pokémon from getting strong, much in more secluded places, without much human intervention they wouldn't have such restriction). How about it?
4. I do wish they'd do away with these single gen only gimmicks. While I understand it makes the metagame constantly fresh, it kinda force them to stick to gimmicks that look cheap because the gimmicks themselves are meant to be disposable and any assets built for them will never make it to the next game. A similar argument can be made for these "nonstandard Pokemons" like UBs, Paradox formes and yes as much as we love them, Megas. They're meant to only stay in the one gen they're introduced because that's where they're actually given the plot to justify their existence. Sure you can just plop them into new games without any explanations and I guess that's fine, but do note that Pokemon is a game that's intended to be accessible for 6 years old who pick them up for the first time, so to suddenly have them go into the post-game and have these dozens of variants and extradimensional Pokemons dumped on them all at once would be overwhelming. Only the regional formes are passable with this since their explanation "they're from another country" is simple enough and doesn't include evolution/time/dimension-traveling BS.
Well, when Megas were announced, never I would have thought it would be just some passing gimmick, I thought it would be a permanent feature that would expand a little bit every new generation, and I wasn't even greedy about it, all I wanted was at least 2~4 new Megas each new game (1~2 for each version), but alas, even this much was denied... Now, about accessibility and how Regionals are "easy to understand", evolution is a core concept of Pokémon, so "it can temporarily evolve further" seems pretty simple to me as well, also, Megas were in two Generations, 6 and 7, so they could have very well just kept going. Also², aren't you underestimating 6 year olds? (or am I overestimating them?) Anyways, one last thing: UBs, is another thing I wished to have at least 2 new ones for Generation, just stop calling them UB something or another outside of their original games, and for most players they would just be strange Pokémon, after all, Sigilyph exists. Just have a book in some lab explaining them for those who want to know, also³, having some weird looking Pokémon suddenly appearing somewhere you already went through many many times or after some mysterious quest seems pretty fun, doesn't it?
---- All in all, I'm still severely disappointed, but love Pokémon too much to just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist, so I'll just keep not buying new games and hope they'll be more to my liking someday (otherwise I'll just enjoy the new Pokémon the Generations will bring, from a distance).
Ghost_H said: Anyways, particularly, with the expection of Cut and Flash, I would always just use the HMs on the Pokémon I were actively using, but regardless, I'm aware that people didn't like HMs.... Well, when Megas were announced, never I would have thought it would be just some passing gimmick... Also², aren't you underestimating 6 year olds? (or am I overestimating them?)
Ya know, when I was younger, I always questioned why we needed a Pokemon to light up an area. You're letting your child go off camping/adventuring. Is a flashlight too much to ask for? I think they dug themselves into a hole with Megas, cause people liked that, so lets keep upping the ante! I know it's anecdotal, but if we go off my nephews, I'd underestimate them too. lol
Ghost_H said: Well, when Megas were announced, never I would have thought it would be just some passing gimmick, I thought it would be a permanent feature that would expand a little bit every new generation, and I wasn't even greedy about it, all I wanted was at least 2~4 new Megas each new game (1~2 for each version), but alas, even this much was denied... Now, about accessibility and how Regionals are "easy to understand", evolution is a core concept of Pokémon, so "it can temporarily evolve further" seems pretty simple to me as well, also, Megas were in two Generations, 6 and 7, so they could have very well just kept going. Also², aren't you underestimating 6 year olds? (or am I overestimating them?) Anyways, one last thing: UBs, is another thing I wished to have at least 2 new ones for Generation, just stop calling them UB something or another outside of their original games, and for most players they would just be strange Pokémon, after all, Sigilyph exists.
Point is if we keep all the new Pokemon types, that's the issue I'm talking about. Imagine needing to add 2 Megas, 2 UBs, 2 G-Maxes AND 2 Paradox formes going forward every gen, that's 8 more mons they're obligated to add in. Now let's say the next game has a new "special category" of Pokemons, like idk, fusion mons, now going forward they also have to add 2 new fusion mon every games too. You see how the numbers will just continue to go up, they'll need to ad 8, 10, 12, 14 new Pokemons every games every time a new "special category" is introduced. And that's the part that will overwhelm new players, 6 years old or not.
And not to imagine having to balance a game where Megas, G-Max, and whatever the new signature mechanic will all have to coexist. Or being fans of Z-Move or Terrastal and see your fav mechanic axxed while Megas and G-Max get to stay.
This, Smash Bros. and Animal Crossing should have died a long time ago, since the Nintendo DS at least (and I'm extending too much). But you guys love to be ripped off, I won't shed any tears on your disgrace.
Ya know, when I was younger, I always questioned why we needed a Pokemon to light up an area. You're letting your child go off camping/adventuring. Is a flashlight too much to ask for? I think they dug themselves into a hole with Megas, cause people liked that, so lets keep upping the ante! I know it's anecdotal, but if we go off my nephews, I'd underestimate them too. lol
Silly you, everyone knows there's no such thing called "flashlight" in the Pokémon world, hence the need of the move Flash; Fools... well, Square at some point said they would never make remakes (afair), so who knows, maybe when they run out of ideas for gimmicks they add Megas back; Haha, well, I only have myself and my younger sister to go by, and while it's true that my sister just went through half of LeafGreen and Sapphire (before reaching the conclusion that she didn't like RPGs and preferred to play The Sims instead), at age 6 I finished most games I played, and that with the extra difficulty of not knowing english.
azurelorochi said:
Point is if we keep all the new Pokemon types, that's the issue I'm talking about. Imagine needing to add 2 Megas, 2 UBs, 2 G-Maxes AND 2 Paradox formes going forward every gen, that's 8 more mons they're obligated to add in. Now let's say the next game has a new "special category" of Pokemons, like idk, fusion mons, now going forward they also have to add 2 new fusion mon every games too. You see how the numbers will just continue to go up, they'll need to ad 8, 10, 12, 14 new Pokemons every games every time a new "special category" is introduced. And that's the part that will overwhelm new players, 6 years old or not.
And not to imagine having to balance a game where Megas, G-Max, and whatever the new signature mechanic will all have to coexist. Or being fans of Z-Move or Terrastal and see your fav mechanic axxed while Megas and G-Max get to stay.
Why, pray tell, are you just keeping g-max like it's a natural thing to do? Especially considering how g-max is just "the Mega Evolution of dynamax" (which, by itself, is merely a 3 turn spam of Z-Moves, but without the somewhat cute little dance), so just remove the "Becomes giant" and call them Megas as well (even if that meant that Blastoise, Venusaur and Gengar would now have Mega Evolutions "X" and "Y", and Charizard would gain a "Z"). Either way... well... while I only care about Megas and UBs, it's only fair that if other people will lose their prefered gimmick, I should lose mine as well, which brings me right back to my original statement: "but I know one of them (megas) will simply never happen".
Nintendo just announced Pokemon SV sold 10 millions in three days... We will never get a Pokemon game made with effort...
Thing is, phrasing it as "lack of effort" is also just plain wrong. Like how people complain that VFX in movies or animation quality in animes are actually worse now than they were 5-10 years ago despite better technological advancements. It's not because the people working on it were too lazy, but because of the higher up suits who pushed unrealistic deadlines on them while both underpaying and understaffing the workers in order to maximize profits just for themselves.
The people actually working on the product most likely love it and is working out of passion, otherwise most would've walked away from this abusive workspace a long time ago, it's the corpo greed that shuns both their own employees and the quality of the products.
The people actually working on the product most likely love it and is working out of passion, otherwise most would've walked away from this abusive workspace a long time ago, it's the corpo greed that shuns both their own employees and the quality of the products.
They don't, they are sick of being "the pokemon guys" and have been trying to make a new successful IP but all their non pokemon games failed horribly, being the last of these massive failures "little town hero" and they are forced to continue with pokemon because they know they are nothing without it.
The people actually working on the product most likely love it and is working out of passion, otherwise most would've walked away from this abusive workspace a long time ago, it's the corpo greed that shuns both their own employees and the quality of the products.
This is Japan where black companies exist and employees work on a single company for decades or face dishonor, pressure, depression and shame when they don't follow a loyal path. Cute creatures doesn't mean a happy company, just look at Disney.
EDIT: I just realized they hire new graduates with no game development experience as long as they can prove somehow they can code. Way to go $60 USD game!
Point is if we keep all the new Pokemon types, that's the issue I'm talking about. Imagine needing to add 2 Megas, 2 UBs, 2 G-Maxes AND 2 Paradox formes going forward every gen, that's 8 more mons they're obligated to add in. Now let's say the next game has a new "special category" of Pokemons, like idk, fusion mons, now going forward they also have to add 2 new fusion mon every games too. You see how the numbers will just continue to go up, they'll need to ad 8, 10, 12, 14 new Pokemons every games every time a new "special category" is introduced. And that's the part that will overwhelm new players, 6 years old or not.
And not to imagine having to balance a game where Megas, G-Max, and whatever the new signature mechanic will all have to coexist. Or being fans of Z-Move or Terrastal and see your fav mechanic axxed while Megas and G-Max get to stay.
While I hate to add to this discussion, I have to agree with what the user who replied to this before said. It's very bizarre to just assume that Megas AND G-Max would both stay in this hypothetical scenario despite the fact that neither gimmick has been in the same game at the same time aside from Pokemas. G-Max forms were what replaced Mega Evolution, so why would they need to add both, instead of one or the other?
And why the heck would you even mention Paradox Forms when they're the most region-locked of all the gimmicks? This really sounds like a strawman argument.
This is Japan where black companies exist and employees work on a single company for decades or face dishonor, pressure, depression and shame when they don't follow a loyal path. Cute creatures doesn't mean a happy company, just look at Disney.
Even if the lower grunt workers aren't happy, it still doesn't change that it's the culmination of them being overworked, underpaid, understaffed, and yes, burnt out, that resulted in having to push out a product they themselves certainly know is half-broken and unpolished. And it still doesn't change the fact that all of these are the fault of the upper corpos who never worked on a single design or line of code themselves but will be the one earning the most out of these games.
