Elle_Lowel said: Yeah, I hate Suwackjob even more now. Give her a worse beatdown Meiling. A punch for every one of Flan-chan's tears!
Flan needed that beating, it may teach her something, it's like that doujin of Flan and Mokou, in the end a good beating from Mokou was what taught Flandre how painful it could be and how she should pay more attention about her actions.
No matter the moe, discipline is necessary for growing up, even if you're a loli 400 years old vampiress...
If anything, i hope the continuation of Suwako vs Meiling turns out as good as it was looking.
Mettaur said: Flan needed that beating, it may teach her something, it's like that doujin of Flan and Mokou, in the end a good beating from Mokou was what taught Flandre how painful it could be and how she should pay more attention about her actions.
No matter the moe, discipline is necessary for growing up, even if you're a loli 400 years old vampiress...
In Flan-chan's defense, she thought the match was all fun and games. Furthermore her training was more like playtime roughhousing. So even if she's 400+ years old, just like her sister, she's still a child deep down. Also it should have been obvious that Sanae isn't as durable as Meiling is and Suwackjob should have not allowed her into that fight.
If Meiling doesn't beat her I hope Flan-chan kyu's her.
Elle_Lowel said: In Flan-chan's defense, she thought the match was all fun and games.
And now that she realizes that it's not a game, she's going to get serious. If I remeber correctly, the tournament is held on the night of the full moon. Gensokyo is fucked as soon as Flan is out of the ring.
angrybull said: And now that she realizes that it's not a game, she's going to get serious. If I remeber correctly, the tournament is held on the night of the full moon. Gensokyo is fucked as soon as Flan is out of the ring.
Ya when flan stops crying she is gonna get angry.
If Suwako manages to hurt Meiling Flan is gonna go DEFCON 1
IF Flan goes DEFCON 1, the series will come to a rather abrupt end :P
It feels like this fight is going on forever, so it's got to end really soon. My guess is that Flan does something to get her team disqualified out of rage, or she runs crying to Marisa or Remi.
Suwako beats China while in rage mode... but her team gets replaced with the subs since Sanae is out. That's all my guess on what happens.
Elle_Lowel said: In Flan-chan's defense, she thought the match was all fun and games. Furthermore her training was more like playtime roughhousing. So even if she's 400+ years old, just like her sister, she's still a child deep down. Also it should have been obvious that Sanae isn't as durable as Meiling is and Suwackjob should have not allowed her into that fight.
If Meiling doesn't beat her I hope Flan-chan kyu's her.
First of all drop the Suwakjob since technically Flan is the only one close to be a "Wack job" between all those fighting in this match (probably Inner Sanae being second to her).
Second She may be a kid and may be innocent, but not self restraining nearly killed somebody or did some damage beyond what you get in this kind of matches, not getting smacked properly and showing the consequences of overdoing it isn't good for Flan's to grow up, getting her way no matter the consequences isn't exactly the best thing for her, specially if you consider her powers, >_> so believe me, for the sake of gensokyo's "health", she needs to learn this lesson, even if its through the hard way.
So seriously drop the "Evil Suwako" thing and stop demonizing her, root for Flan victory as much as you want, but when the oponnent have good reasons to beat her for overdoing it, don't act like if the oponnent were some evil bully or anything.
Also Suwako and Sanae are a team, in tag team you can't just tell your partner "No buddy you stay out of this i'll handle both of them" you can get disqualified out of it if there aren't good reasons for the partner to not be allowed to fight (like being ultra sonic flying kicked out of the ring nearly breaking her neck) Besides while Sanae isn't better than Meiling or Flan, she still have her stuff, so she could give it a shot, heh she technically nearly won the match at the very beginning if it wasn't by her consideration to Flan's clearly naivety.
Mettaur said: So seriously drop the "Evil Suwako" thing and stop demonizing her, root for Flan victory as much as you want, but when the oponnent have good reasons to beat her for overdoing it, don't act like if the oponnent were some evil bully or anything.
It depends if Suwako is getting pleasure out of Flan's pain or not. That makes a big difference.
Mettaur said: First of all drop the Suwakjob since technically Flan is the only one close to be a "Wack job" between all those fighting in this match (probably Inner Sanae being second to her).
No and I don't think so. Flan seems definatly quite sane and normal for someone who hasn't matured yet. And mind you only fanon doujins depict her as an outta control lunatic where as the canon side, She has it more together than her sister. Despite being locked away for so long.
Mettaur said: Second She may be a kid and may be innocent, but not self restraining nearly killed somebody or did some damage beyond what you get in this kind of matches.
At least Flan-chan has an semi-legitimate excuse for not showing restraint. However we see that frog not displaying any either. And borrowing from your own earlier reference When Mokou did taught flan a lesson. She did it in a big sisterly example fashion after striking her once instead of wailing on her after blinding her so she won't see it comming. Cause at the very least, Flan did give Sanae a sporting chance despite differences in power. Which I might add were evened out by the ring's barrier.
And about the tag team thing, understandable. But eventually one will always outshine the other or one will carry the other the victory. And in this case, it's obvious on which is doing what.
Mettaur said: So seriously drop the "Evil Suwako" thing and stop demonizing her
Frankly i've took in all the canon/fanon of the Moriya Shrine and found them unsavory in their acts and deeds. So it's pretty much not demonizing. Unless I see an improvement in their behaivior my opinion won't change, even if you hate it.
*sigh* There goes my 'short, sweet and to the point' record.
Stepping aside the argument, there has been a LOT of emotion that's been shown in ALL of the fights so far I can break it down from all the fights, but that will make this to long
Suwako getting THAT angry that she would straight up handle Flan like that over what she did to Sanae is admirable in its own right, I don't think she has taken it to far, yet
Who wouldn't? Flan may have nearly killed Sanae if she wasn't as remotely strong, even Surviving that beating Yuka gave her is proof of that
Everyone seems to have made nice with each other in the end
But before that happens, I Do want to see Flan go bat-shit crazy on Someone for her pain, She is brused and bleeding. Oh-I Do hope she does XD!
I think you guys are mistaken. Flan isn't crying because she's hurting from a beating. She's crying because she has pepper in her eyes. Suwako's attack hasn't even phased her. Suwako's still in deep shit.
Virgorival said: Stepping aside the argument, there has been a LOT of emotion that's been shown in ALL of the fights so far I can break it down from all the fights, but that will make this to long
Well if they didn't do it with such a level of emotions, Yukari would get on their cases for not reprising Kinnikuman's "emotional level" for each match properly for her amusement...Hell i wouldn't be surprised that, if by some weird reason, Reimu and Marissa become a team because their partners are off comission, she would demands them to go "THIS IS THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!" with a Kinniku Docking...
So yeah, aside of the very characters's attitudes, etc. Emotions are a must if they are reprising a "choujin like" tag tournament.
Flandre has no strategy nor form, all she has is sheer insane power.
And she joined on her own risk, so don't be hating on Suwako because she can't handle it.
It's a wrestling match, you get hurt in it. Kay? There is no kyu or any of that in here. And knowing the odds of this damned game, it's usually the most unpredictable to lose.
Steak said: I think you guys are mistaken. Flan isn't crying because she's hurting from a beating. She's crying because she has pepper in her eyes.
Actually, reading back, that red mist not only contained pepper but also GARLIC. Vampire+garlic you do the math, she's probably in some serious pain right now. (granted it's still not the beating that's the problem)
Sort of curious what lies at the root of Elle Lowel's loathing for Suwako, but it'll probably turn out to be some incredibly mundane reason like objecting to her past reign being wholly fear-inspired or the like.
torinoko said: Sort of curious what lies at the root of Elle Lowel's loathing for Suwako, but it'll probably turn out to be some incredibly mundane reason like objecting to her past reign being wholly fear-inspired or the like.
Actually, he dislikes the whole Moriya shrine contingent based on their characterization in their first game appearance, Mountain of Faith. The plot of Mountain of Faith basically was this: The Gods/Goddesses of the Touhou universe get power from human beings' faith in them. They weren't being worshipped enough in the outside world any more (because people don't believe in them nor are as spiritual as they used to be), so they went to Gensokyo... then proceeded to try and drive Reimu out of business, because she was the only other major shrine in Gensokyo, so they could monopolize the faith of all of Gensokyo's human population.
They were also protrayed in a very arrogant, holier-than-thou fashion during Mountain of Faith, Sanae included despite her later becoming a recurring good guy. That attitude is something Sanae is guilty of here as well since she keeps bragging about being a living god as well as wasting precious training time focusing on singing training instead of wrestling trainingn (though she did do physical training as well).
Sanae/Suwako fans rag on Yuuka, but she didn't get that vicious in their match until Sanae belittled her by saying that she, as a living god, couldn't possibly lose to a "mere youkai". Yuuka then proceeded to go, "Oh, yeah?" and twist Sanae's tooth. Even worse, during the interim between the first round and the second round, Sanae focused more on singing training than physical training, despite the lopsided ass-whuppin' Yuuka handed her, clearly demonstrating she hadn't learned her lesson about underestimating Gensokyo's inhabitants.
That said, Sanae gets points for insisiting that it become a best-of-three earlier. She did not deserve the vicious attack Flandre gave her, especially after basically letting Flandre get away with losing the match in under 5 seconds, so Suwako's beating is justified, and this is coming from a Flandre fan. Even Meiling was pissed about it and said to herself that she would speak to Flandre about her bad behavior after the match.
Also worth mentioning. The Moriya Shrine gang are responsible for the whole mess that occured during Subterranean Animism! Kanako set in motion the events that led to Utsuho gaining atomic power (which in turn led to Byakuren's ship being uncovered, kicking off the events of Unidentified Fantastic Objects), and when Reimu later heads to the Moriya shrine to confront her about it during SA's extra stage, Sanae attacks her as "a 'friendly greeting', since you shouldn't rely on common sense in Gensokyo, right!?" (Sanae's own words) Later, after fighting Koishi, Suwako shows up and says Kanako isn't around for Reimu to question, and after fighting Sanae as a mid-boss and then Koishi, Reimu has no choice but to leave with Kanako unpunished for handing such dangerous power to a nutjob like Utsuho.
The Moriya Shrine gang have been more trouble than they are worth throughout most of their canon stay in Gensokyo! This is an undeniable fact! They have directly or indirectly set in motion three major incidents since arriving (MoF, SA, and UFO)! There is a reason anti-Sanae fans call her a "cheap Reimu-knockoff with boobs". She doesn't have a fraction of Reimu's experience, yet she believed she could easily step in and take Reimu's job not only as a shrine maiden but also as the one to maintain the balance of Gensokyo and wach over the Hakurei barrier.
She copied the "body enhancement with divine power" trick from seeing Reimu do it, and even arrogantly commented that if "that other shrine maiden can do it, its no problem for me". She has consistently underestimated everyone she has faced in this tourney, and refuses to even think that she might be outclassed.
HOWEVER! Her one real good deed so far was giving Flandre a chance to have a real match, so I don't think its fair that she got clobbered so bad for it.
Mettaur said: Flan needed that beating, it may teach her something, it's like that doujin of Flan and Mokou, in the end a good beating from Mokou was what taught Flandre how painful it could be and how she should pay more attention about her actions.
No matter the moe, discipline is necessary for growing up, even if you're a loli 400 years old vampiress...
If anything, i hope the continuation of Suwako vs Meiling turns out as good as it was looking.
Come on, Flandre was locked up in the basement all her life, without anyone there to provide her the discipline you mentioned. Mokou is an immortal who lived for over 1000 years while going through a life of hate for Kaguya, while Flandre is locked up in a basement. You can't blame her for what she did, moreover, they've already explained what her life and personality was a few pages back, it's hardly justifiable to say that Flandre needs any beating, just some education.
Episode 436: A person of technique.From the artist's Pixiv page.Leave the rest to me!!Come...Meiling~~~!Aha...and let me see your beautiful kenpou again!
kenpou - Chinese martial artHowever, thanks!That is the best compliment for me!!How bad is it?InfirmaryOoooooooo...Luckily, she concentrated her barrier at the point of impact at the last minute.Kanako-sama's voice...It's not life threatening.She needs to rest for a while...Didn't you hear that she needs to rest!?*Door closing*Beautiful, you say...You can't be praising me under this situation!I see......and when can she return to the ring?