I just wish the zealots would stop using Buri as nothing put a mascot for their beliefs all over the internet. Its getting to the point I am slowly starting to hate him after years of loving him
I just wish the zealots would stop using Buri as nothing put a mascot for their beliefs all over the internet. Its getting to the point I am slowly starting to hate him after years of loving him
You mean like the zealot who made an account on this site specifically for arguing Bridget's gender and has literally done nothing else, even when Daisuke has already settled the matter?
I just wish the zealots would stop using Buri as nothing put a mascot for their beliefs all over the internet. Its getting to the point I am slowly starting to hate him after years of loving him
i am also frustrated by people not caring about bridget other than for their gender, but it feels like youre only blaming the pro-trans bridget side. while both "sides" to the bridget gender discourse are annoying and awful, i think the side that tends to argue that bridget was "groomed" and that daisuke is somehow trying to promote child mutilation because he made a character male to female is...if not worse, still objectively harmful because it has real life ramifications for real life transgender people.
you can absolutely have your critique of how bridgets gender was handled since i also have mine as a GNC dude like bridget used to be, but "the dirty transes took away muh femboy!!" isnt actual critique.
You mean like the zealot who made an account on this site specifically for arguing Bridget's gender and has literally done nothing else, even when Daisuke has already settled the matter?
Man I really feel bad for Daisuke, he doesn't deserve this kind of heat.
i am also frustrated by people not caring about bridget other than for their gender, but it feels like youre only blaming the pro-trans bridget side. while both "sides" to the bridget gender discourse are annoying and awful, i think the side that tends to argue that bridget was "groomed" and that daisuke is somehow trying to promote child mutilation because he made a character male to female is...if not worse, still objectively harmful because it has real life ramifications for real life transgender people.
you can absolutely have your critique of how bridgets gender was handled since i also have mine as a GNC dude like bridget used to be, but "the dirty transes took away muh femboy!!" isnt actual critique.
i am also frustrated by people not caring about bridget other than for their gender, but it feels like youre only blaming the pro-trans bridget side. while both "sides" to the bridget gender discourse are annoying and awful, i think the side that tends to argue that bridget was "groomed" and that daisuke is somehow trying to promote child mutilation because he made a character male to female is...if not worse, still objectively harmful because it has real life ramifications for real life transgender people.
you can absolutely have your critique of how bridgets gender was handled since i also have mine as a GNC dude like bridget used to be, but "the dirty transes took away muh femboy!!" isnt actual critique.
From what I have seen, most who bring up that whole grooming bit is that they are concerned over how Bridgets story was handled in that it seems to play in confirmation of that whole myth, which needless to say is not a good thing, doubly so given that Bridget already was a trans allegory.
As for my own opinion on the matter, I call it retcon. If Bridget was truly written as trans from the start as Daisuke claims then the change shouldn't have happened until much later, and with more buildup and hints. If anything it was clear that this was something done simply cause having trans characters is the popular thing nowadays. What makes me say this is that there were plot points set up since last time we saw Bridget, most importantly one with the brother. This however was all shunted aside and claimed to have been cleared off screen just to force in this whole trans issue.
At the same time I am not surprised in the least that it happened as it was in line with how Strive had been shaping up ever since the first reveals. The game had been very clear on its path to tone the series down and just try and make itself marketable to more mass appeal, so haphazardly throwing in a trans character given it is the popular thing to do seems inevitable. It just reeks to having been a rushed corporate decision for the sake of some quick cash and brownie points rather than being done by a creator that actually cares about the issue.
This is especially disappointing when characters such as Lily Hoshikawa, Michel Bollinger and Gin Noto end up far better executed, being clearly written from the ground up by creators who knows what they are doing.
this may be controversial but i think bridget would work better as a genderqueer character who goes with the flow on what they are referred to and just does whatever they want, leaving the whole gender thing behind to focus on what makes them happy in life.
Technically, we don't actually know that that isn't how she'll behave going forward. Her obsession with her own gender identity was originally entirely for the sake of others. Proving that she isn't a cursed existence just because she was one half of a pair of same-sex twins was something she had to do to dispel the superstition, not something she wanted to do for herself. She didn't care what people saw her as until she realized it was hurting her parents, and only cared after that was resolved because it was something she was used to caring about.
With that original problem resolved, and Bridget recently coming to terms with and accepting what she truly wants, regardless of what other people think of it, there's no reason she can't go forward being totally indifferent to whether people see her as a man or woman, despite her personally identifying as the latter.
We'll just have to see.
rumbletemple said:
i think the side that tends to argue that bridget was "groomed" and that daisuke is somehow trying to promote child mutilation because he made a character male to female is...if not worse, still objectively harmful because it has real life ramifications for real life transgender people.
Also this is just factually untrue. Daisuke did not make a male character into a female. Bridget has not undergone reconstructive surgery at any point in canon. The only thing that's changed is how she identifies, and that didn't happen until 7 years after what gender she was actually mattered to anyone other than herself. And she's an adult now anyway. Why are we comparing an adult making their own choices to a child being subjected to a John Money situation?
Critique is valid up until it actively disregards canon events more than people claim the actual story does.
overall my criticisms are the exact same as yours. while bridget as a character is enjoyable regardless of their gender i dont think daisuke or anyone on the dev team wanted to make a relatable character for their transgender players and they very much knew that it would be the fandom equivalent of dropping a nuke,especially with the current US political climate on transgender issues. it makes no sense with bridgets established backstory, while i have no problem with transgender characters in media it actively warps bridgets issues with coming to terms with what they were raised as and what they truly want to be,putting them in one restrictive category,to another,back to the first one and strive treats them ending up like this as a good choice that will make them happy and not just another way to fit them into another narrative they have to fit into because they are a certain way.
this may be controversial but i think bridget would work better as a genderqueer character who goes with the flow on what they are referred to and just does whatever they want, leaving the whole gender thing behind to focus on what makes them happy in life.
Exactly... Even in Vastedge which is set 5 months prior to Strive and who's events are referenced in XRD, Bridget says; かわいいは余計です… ウチは男です kawaī wa yokeidesu … uchi wa otokodesu Cute is unnecessary... I'm a man
I mean when I can't even go anywhere online looking for cute Buri art without seeing that pastel flag pasted everywhere in western art of Buri, how is anyone supposed to find enjoyment unless you go into very niche circles that still respect the original character. I see eastern art making art because Buri is cute whilst the west makes art to use him as a prop for their beliefs
I just hate lazy retcons instead of making new characters.
From what I have seen, most who bring up that whole grooming bit is that they are concerned over how Bridgets story was handled in that it seems to play in confirmation of that whole myth, which needless to say is not a good thing, doubly so given that Bridget already was a trans allegory.
As for my own opinion on the matter, I call it retcon. If Bridget was truly written as trans from the start as Daisuke claims then the change shouldn't have happened until much later, and with more buildup and hints. If anything it was clear that this was something done simply cause having trans characters is the popular thing nowadays. What makes me say this is that there were plot points set up since last time we saw Bridget, most importantly one with the brother. This however was all shunted aside and claimed to have been cleared off screen just to force in this whole trans issue.
At the same time I am not surprised in the least that it happened as it was in line with how Strive had been shaping up ever since the first reveals. The game had been very clear on its path to tone the series down and just try and make itself marketable to more mass appeal, so haphazardly throwing in a trans character given it is the popular thing to do seems inevitable. It just reeks to having been a rushed corporate decision for the sake of some quick cash and brownie points rather than being done by a creator that actually cares about the issue.
This is especially disappointing when characters such as Lily Hoshikawa, Michel Bollinger and Gin Noto end up far better executed, being clearly written from the ground up by creators who knows what they are doing.
Agreed. I just hated the retconning of an established feminine male because there is soo little rep for them in favor of cheap rep that is just "oh they are this now" instead of making a new original character
I've seen it happen one too many times and it is tiring. Wandering Son and Boku Girl do such rep amazingly but no, the new thing is just to give it a new paint and call it improved for a modern audience. I hate dislike both of the extreme sides of the controversy with a bit more towards the pro side as majority of them consist of those who admit to never even touching the games and those who just use it for clout. I'm just tired of the narcissism
i am also frustrated by people not caring about bridget other than for their gender, but it feels like youre only blaming the pro-trans bridget side. while both "sides" to the bridget gender discourse are annoying and awful, i think the side that tends to argue that bridget was "groomed" and that daisuke is somehow trying to promote child mutilation because he made a character male to female is...if not worse, still objectively harmful because it has real life ramifications for real life transgender people.
you can absolutely have your critique of how bridgets gender was handled since i also have mine as a GNC dude like bridget used to be, but "the dirty transes took away muh femboy!!" isnt actual critique.
Not entirely, the anti side has their fault too but they aren't as numerous as the pro side
I just want to enjoy cute art of Buri without having to filter through it because if it is western, from my experience it is either used to push that pastel flag or used to make fetish art. It's just tiring after years of seeing everything I ever cared for be altered for people who never cared about it until it was tailored for them
if it is western, from my experience it is either used to push that pastel flag or used to make fetish art.
And before Strive, 90% of Bridget art was either used to "trick" people into "admitting they're gay" or used to make fetish art. This narrative that the majority of fanartists ever respected Bridget as a femboy in the past is a complete myth - it's always been the case that 90% of Bridget fanart was either pushing an agenda or fapbait, the only thing that's changed is which agenda is being pushed. At least now the people who are using her to "push that pastel flag" aren't constantly using her as the butt of "OMG you like trap, ur gay!!!1!" jokes.
And before Strive, 90% of Bridget art was either used to "trick" people into "admitting they're gay" or used to make fetish art. This narrative that the majority of fanartists ever respected Bridget as a femboy in the past is a complete myth - it's always been the case that 90% of Bridget fanart was either pushing an agenda or fapbait, the only thing that's changed is which agenda is being pushed. At least now the people who are using her to "push that pastel flag" aren't constantly using her as the butt of "OMG you like trap, ur gay!!!1!" jokes.
No, they are just going "OMG <random B word> my beloved!" or talking about how Buri is going through HRT or bottom surgery. Also before Strive there was 788 NSFW art of Bridget on r34, in Feb 11th this year it was 1887 and today it is 2206... that is more smut made after being retconned as trans than collectively over 20 years as an otokonoko
The joke of everyone being gay for Bridget wasn't malicious. The joke was that he was girly and makes people sexually confused, I know it worked for me and helped me discover I am bisexual... Now the joke is dead because that Buri is just a "girl", there is no confusion
Of course, this comment is gonna be downvoted to hell because it's basically reddit here now and I'm not in favor of the current thing because I don't think GNC is outdated as Daisuke claims that he is now "strongly conscious about compliance to global standards"
No, they are just going "OMG <random B word> my beloved!" or talking about how Buri is going through HRT or bottom surgery. Also before Strive there was 788 NSFW art of Bridget on r34, in Feb 11th this year it was 1887 and today it is 2206... that is more smut made after being retconned as trans than collectively over 20 years as an otokonoko
First and foremost, Bridget self identifying as a girl now is not a retcon, nothing about her history was changed. Second, all of that post-Strive nsfw Bridget art is the exact same femboy fetish art that was being made before. Literally nothing has changed. Really the only reason there's so much more of it is because the GG fanbase is considerably larger now than when Bridget debuted.
The joke of everyone being gay for Bridget wasn't malicious. The joke was that he was girly and makes people sexually confused, I know it worked for me and helped me discover I am bisexual... Now the joke is dead because that Buri is just a "girl", there is no confusion
It doesn't matter if it was malicious or not, the point is that no one ever respected Bridget before, so any whining about how she's not being respected now is just BS double standards. Whatever Daisuke's reasons were for creating an otokonoko character and later having that chafacter identify as a woman, do you think Japan creates femboy characters because they respect GNC individuals? No, it's a fetish trope all the way to its core. Fetishism was always Bridget's appeal, the fact a small group of individuals identified with the character doesn't change that literally everyone else just made fetish art.
Also, you know what, the gay for Bridget jokes were typically used for trolling. How is that not malicious? Because you have a positive anecdote from it? Showing a "cute anime girl" to someone and then making fun of them for admitting to being sexually attracted to a boy sure sounds malicious to me.
First and foremost, Bridget self identifying as a girl now is not a retcon, nothing about her history was changed. Second, all of that post-Strive nsfw Bridget art is the exact same femboy fetish art that was being made before. Literally nothing has changed. Really the only reason there's so much more of it is because the GG fanbase is considerably larger now than when Bridget debuted.
Right... Not a retcon yet 5 months prior to Strive, Bridget says "かわいいは余計です… ウチは男です / kawaī wa yokeidesu … uchi wa otokodesu / Cute is unnecessary... I'm a man" in Vastedge who's events are referenced in XRD. I have a friend who is pro trans Bridget and even she says it is a retcon given the dialogue from Guilty Gear Vastedge. Just because you don't accept that doesn't mean it isn't a retcon just like claiming Luke Skywalker becoming a gay nihilistic hermit who wanted to commit nepoticide isn't a retcon from Luke being a Jedi Grandmaster with a wife and kid
Whatever Daisuke's reasons were for creating an otokonoko character and later having that chafacter identify as a woman, do you think Japan creates femboy characters because they respect GNC individuals? No, it's a fetish trope all the way to its core. Fetishism was always Bridget's appeal, the fact a small group of individuals identified with the character doesn't change that literally everyone else just made fetish art.
Daisuke's reasons were and I quote, because he "thought it would be too boring if the character was just cute, so I thought it would be interesting to make the character a guy" https://international.ucla.edu/institute/article/110450 The fact you think fetishism was the appeal for Bridget and not his moe cuteness, then it sounds like you have quite a bigoted view on Japanese people if you think they make femboys for the sake of getting off to girly men. Please just accept that you are imposing a Eurocentric standard of gender on a Japanese work of art, and stop attempting to erase the existence of gender-ambiguous men and women in fiction as well as in real life because you think they only exist as a kink to people.
Right... Not a retcon yet 5 months prior to Strive, Bridget says "かわいいは余計です… ウチは男です / kawaī wa yokeidesu … uchi wa otokodesu / Cute is unnecessary... I'm a man" in Vastedge who's events are referenced in XRD. I have a friend who is pro trans Bridget and even she says it is a retcon given the dialogue from Guilty Gear Vastedge. Just because you don't accept that doesn't mean it isn't a retcon just like claiming Luke Skywalker becoming a gay nihilistic hermit who wanted to commit nepoticide isn't a retcon from Luke being a Jedi Grandmaster with a wife and kid
Daisuke's reasons were and I quote, because he "thought it would be too boring if the character was just cute, so I thought it would be interesting to make the character a guy" https://international.ucla.edu/institute/article/110450 The fact you think fetishism was the appeal for Bridget and not his moe cuteness, then it sounds like you have quite a bigoted view on Japanese people if you think they make femboys for the sake of getting off to girly men. Please just accept that you are imposing a Eurocentric standard of gender on a Japanese work of art, and stop attempting to erase the existence of gender-ambiguous men and women in fiction as well as in real life because you think they only exist as a kink to people.
Unless contradictory work occurs concurrently or directly reverses the events of the previous work, it's not a retcon. A sequel work putting a new status quo is just an update. And even IF it's a retcon, it's nothing to have an argument against over. Your inane arguments might hold any water if entirety of your account isn't just Bridget shitposting. I don't see you fighting over the actual retcon of Asuka's catboy appearance in xrd, or the sequence of events that lead to Japan blowing up, or Raven's implied connection with Axl, but no, it's just Bridget shitposts.
No one buys your garbage because it's obviously garbage and your motivations are crystal clear.
And before Strive, 90% of Bridget art was either used to "trick" people into "admitting they're gay" or used to make fetish art. This narrative that the majority of fanartists ever respected Bridget as a femboy in the past is a complete myth - it's always been the case that 90% of Bridget fanart was either pushing an agenda or fapbait, the only thing that's changed is which agenda is being pushed. At least now the people who are using her to "push that pastel flag" aren't constantly using her as the butt of "OMG you like trap, ur gay!!!1!" jokes.
It's frustrating how nobody said a word about the value of GNC Bridget until she was canonically trans.
Like, I can see that argument! "A character who's traditionally feminine while still being a boy" has real value to GNC guys, and retreating to a binary trans identity, while it's enormously satisfying to me personally (as a fairly binary trans woman), has real costs to other people! But somehow I never see that argument deployed in tandem with, for example, "I wanted Bridget to realize that it was fine to be cute and still a man," or "I wanted Bridget to try traditional masculinity, realize it wasn't for him, and start dressing cute again," or, hell, even "I wanted Bridget to sometimes go masc and sometimes go femme." It's exclusively deployed by people whose argument seems to be "I wanted absolutely nothing to change, and I wanted Bridget to hover in the limbo of 'cute and ashamed of it' forever because ???, and I object very strenuously to having to look at a transgender flag ever, because it is Western [ignores the existence of Japanese trans culture] and also trans acceptance is Western and my beloved Japan will never make me reconsider how I view gender or sexuality."
It's frustrating how nobody said a word about the value of GNC Bridget until she was canonically trans.
Like, I can see that argument! "A character who's traditionally feminine while still being a boy" has real value to GNC guys, and retreating to a binary trans identity, while it's enormously satisfying to me personally (as a fairly binary trans woman), has real costs to other people! But somehow I never see that argument deployed in tandem with, for example, "I wanted Bridget to realize that it was fine to be cute and still a man," or "I wanted Bridget to try traditional masculinity, realize it wasn't for him, and start dressing cute again," or, hell, even "I wanted Bridget to sometimes go masc and sometimes go femme." It's exclusively deployed by people whose argument seems to be "I wanted absolutely nothing to change, and I wanted Bridget to hover in the limbo of 'cute and ashamed of it' forever because ???, and I object very strenuously to having to look at a transgender flag ever, because it is Western [ignores the existence of Japanese trans culture] and also trans acceptance is Western and my beloved Japan will never make me reconsider how I view gender or sexuality."
I have actually seen quite a few voicing their frustrations with how turning Bridget trans shoots down those narrative potentials that you mentioned. In fact, it seems quite a common sentiment among the otoko no ko crowd is frustration that liking cute or traditionally feminine things or rejecting typical masculinity then gets them the trans label showed down their throats. I can't help but feel like that a lot of the current day transphobia ultimately comes down to frustration born from the behavior of a very vocal minority and the media. A lot of otherwise neutral people on the issue turn hostile or at least receptive to regressive ideas due to this. I know it might be a controversial take, but that is how I see it.
In my opinion, if they really would have wanted a trans character in the game, then they should have made a new character (my personal headcannon is Bridgets brother which would have opened all kinds of interesting possibilities) rather than going for the lowest hanging of fruits. Cause that what this feels like. It was done cause Bridget was an easy target rather than being cause it made sense or had potential story tied to it.
It's frustrating how nobody said a word about the value of GNC Bridget until she was canonically trans.
Like, I can see that argument! "A character who's traditionally feminine while still being a boy" has real value to GNC guys, and retreating to a binary trans identity, while it's enormously satisfying to me personally (as a fairly binary trans woman), has real costs to other people! But somehow I never see that argument deployed in tandem with, for example, "I wanted Bridget to realize that it was fine to be cute and still a man," or "I wanted Bridget to try traditional masculinity, realize it wasn't for him, and start dressing cute again," or, hell, even "I wanted Bridget to sometimes go masc and sometimes go femme." It's exclusively deployed by people whose argument seems to be "I wanted absolutely nothing to change, and I wanted Bridget to hover in the limbo of 'cute and ashamed of it' forever because ???, and I object very strenuously to having to look at a transgender flag ever, because it is Western [ignores the existence of Japanese trans culture] and also trans acceptance is Western and my beloved Japan will never make me reconsider how I view gender or sexuality."
Bridget realizing that he could be manly in his own way without having to follow what people thought men should be, even if it meant people would still mistake him for a girl, would be the logical conclusion to his arc if the company still wanted to keep him keeping the cute looks. But alas, it was decided that it was only acceptable to him to exist if he fits the expectations that others had for him. So it is what it is.
I have actually seen quite a few voicing their frustrations with how turning Bridget trans shoots down those narrative potentials that you mentioned. In fact, it seems quite a common sentiment among the otoko no ko crowd is frustration that liking cute or traditionally feminine things or rejecting typical masculinity then gets them the trans label showed down their throats. I can't help but feel like that a lot of the current day transphobia ultimately comes down to frustration born from the behavior of a very vocal minority and the media. A lot of otherwise neutral people on the issue turn hostile or at least receptive to regressive ideas due to this. I know it might be a controversial take, but that is how I see it.
In my opinion, if they really would have wanted a trans character in the game, then they should have made a new character (my personal headcannon is Bridgets brother which would have opened all kinds of interesting possibilities) rather than going for the lowest hanging of fruits. Cause that what this feels like. It was done cause Bridget was an easy target rather than being cause it made sense or had potential story tied to it.
This! All of this! You put it into words that my dumb brain couldn't assemble. Nobody has an issue with a trans character in Guilty Gear, they just had issues with Bridget because of his backstory and the fact that even in Vastedge he says; 村の掟を打ち破りたいんです。 ウチが男の子として村に帰るために..... mura no okite o uchiyaburitai ndesu . uchi ga otokonoko toshite mura ni kaeru tame ni..... I want to break the rules of the village. To return to the village as a boy.....
かわいいは余計です… ウチは男です kawaī wa yokeidesu … uchi wa otokodesu Cute is unnecessary... I'm a man
To many it is seen as Daisuke pulling a Rowling and saying that all this happened offscreen is a failure in storytelling as it should be "Show don't tell" instead of "Tell don't show"... It's the equivilant of "somehow Palpatine returned"
Same here and many who have shown their disapproval of the retcon have supported that idea too. Just goes to show it was never about bigotry, but about erasure of established lore as it seems to be a trend these days that canon can just be declared and continuity is irrelevant
Bridget realizing that he could be manly in his own way without having to follow what people thought men should be, even if it meant people would still mistake him for a girl, would be the logical conclusion to his arc if the company still wanted to keep him keeping the cute looks. But alas, it was decided that it was only acceptable to him to exist if he fits the expectations that others had for him. So it is what it is.
Plus if anything, the fact he was AFAB and raised a girl all his life means his story before Strive was a better allegory for trans acceptance than what has become of him now... giving up all his achievements to be seen as a man just to conform to what his society wanted him to be
Plus if anything, the fact he was AFAB and raised a girl all his life means his story before Strive was a better allegory for trans acceptance than what has become of him now... giving up all his achievements to be seen as a man just to conform to what his society wanted him to be
That is not what AFAB means. Being socially raised female is different from medically being assigned female at birth by a licensed doctor.
Bridget is best ❤️ I always played him on the original Xbox, he helped me be happy with who I am; he was forced to dress like a girl by the nuns of the village, but was still happy with who he was, he didn't let the past interrupt his future and present.
I wasn't forced, but I was still naturally feminine, and even though I enjoyed dressing/being a certain way, I'm still really happy with who I am.
Bridget will always be my childhood crush and inspiration, even today, he's a fire in my heart that keeps me going. 🔥❤️🔥