Please, please, please let her get back to the ring in time to save things, no idea whats actually going on but i hope this is a last minute save, good chance since Sanae's there after all.
So Komachi really was KO'ed, and not just faking it as was speculated.
LostAgain said: Please, please, please let her get back to the ring in time to save things, no idea whats actually going on but i hope this is a last minute save, good chance since Sanae's there after all.
Certain commenters are going to have a field day with this.
This hasn't been confirmed. We've seen Eiki get a two-panel finisher, but the announcer hasn't confirmed it. My guess: Sanae's trying to trick Komachi into rushing onto the ring, and as a result (following more god damn walls of text and action), getting Higan Judgement to win.
Oh well, it was inevitable. Ever since the very beggining, there was this glint and hint that the immortal team would win.
Too bad we lost an extremely interesting duo with great possibilities... But what sealed their fate was the match they were selected to fight in. Maybe we'll get to see them again someday in the future, I don't know? But a team so strongly connected to the main event wouldn't lose to the team that had the least development and growth ever since the first strip.
Not the best ending for an otherwise impossible-to-win match, involving extreme healing and damage-ignoring powers but... Oh, well. It's high time this particular one stops torturing us with the possibilities it brought.
So is this going to be the new Yuuku/Cirno vs Sanae/Suwako? As in, people are going to bring up that they hated the outcome at every possible opportunity?
Zaku_Zelo said: So is this going to be the new Yuuku/Cirno vs Sanae/Suwako? As in, people are going to bring up that they hated the outcome at every possible opportunity?
This.
It's like watching reactions to a Gainax anime ending.
Siegmund_200% said: As much as the immortals moving on grinds on my nerves the artist is staying true to the source material.
1. Pull powers/abilities out of ass? Check 2. Bad teams seem to move on when they shouldn't? Check 3. Cause RAAAAAGE!? Check
1. Only...they didn't pull anything out of their ass. Both are immortal, and have been fighting close to non-stop for the last millenia. Human or not, Mokou, and Kaguya herself, are going to have a FUCKTON of stamina and pain tolerance. Kaguya got her shoulder dislocated, yes. It hurt like a bitch at first, yes. But she DOES have regeneration on her side, and this match went on FOREVER. Mokou's human, yes, but again, immortal. And fighting someone for that long over and over again is going to do two things:
1: You're going to get strong from that. It's like training constantly. No matter what, she HAS to be someone physically strong.
2: You're going to know your enemies movements perfectly by this time. Thus you know everything your enemy, and in this case, partner can do.
They stayed true to what they do best. Fuck each other up. They just used that against their opponent. Stamina, my friend. Stamina. Plus, a partner kissing then BITING THE TONGUE OFF of their other partner is unexpect. And...squicky. Even Eiki's going to be thrown off...
2. Higan Judgment did worse, though. They pulled even more dirty moves, and were almost purely psychological in everything they did. Komachi pissing Mokou off and literally threatening Keine was NOT. SMART. If, in canon, there is one person Mokou at least somewhat cares about, it's going to be Keine. Komachi doing that both pissed her off, and truly made the fight personal. Whether it was an empty threat or not.
3. OF course it'd cause rage. If Higan won, people'd be just as rage-y.
Zaku_Zelo said: So is this going to be the new Yuuku/Cirno vs Sanae/Suwako? As in, people are going to bring up that they hated the outcome at every possible opportunity?
SPEAKING OF WHICH... Er, I mean...
I rather liked the outcome. Or rather, how it was done. It wasn't a bullshit victory like what happened in the Y/C vs S/S fight, they actually fought and earned the victory more legit. People are only upset in this case because of favoritism, I'm guessing.
As far as movesets go, no powers were magically granted, they just didn't have any rhythm together. Once they found how they fight with each other, by having their opponents merely be collateral damage in their eternal dual, they finally got in synch with one another. When one group isn't in synch, but the other is? Of course they'll be winning. When the other gets back into synch, though, it gets more evened out.
I'm curious as to what happens next as the possibility of Sanae lying and the fallout from the Immortals going heel. It's unusual that he omitted the exact victory scene.
YuriTenshi said: SPEAKING OF WHICH... Er, I mean...
I rather liked the outcome. Or rather, how it was done. It wasn't a bullshit victory like what happened in the Y/C vs S/S fight, they actually fought and earned the victory more legit. People are only upset in this case because of favoritism, I'm guessing.
As far as movesets go, no powers were magically granted, they just didn't have any rhythm together. Once they found how they fight with each other, by having their opponents merely be collateral damage in their eternal dual, they finally got in synch with one another. When one group isn't in synch, but the other is? Of course they'll be winning. When the other gets back into synch, though, it gets more evened out.
you overlooked the part where they both pulled improved strength/defense/regeneration. Yeah it's a Sasuke level asspull.
StriderTuna said: I'm curious as to what happens next as the possibility of Sanae lying and the fallout from the Immortals going heel. It's unusual that he omitted the exact victory scene.
you overlooked the part where they both pulled improved strength/defense/regeneration. Yeah it's a Sasuke level asspull.
Improved strength? They were able to handle Eiki's rod of remose like it weighed nothing. Komachi could barely lift it and she's second only to Eiki in strength.
When you have people take a hell of a beating then magically win by going, "oh hey, strategy time" then winning instantly, practically, is in bad taste.
There more that could be said, but meh. It was a cop out.
At any rate, nothing can be said for sure as of yet. Sanae could just think that Shiki has lost after seeing the technique but not staying for the count. We don't have any means of a timeframe right now. Until it goes back to the ring or they bring Shiki into the infirmary, I will continue to believe the match is still on.
Aside from the immortals' mysteriously skyrocketing power levels, there is also the unpleasant taste of watching Kaguya meet the judge who eventually makes everyone else face consequences for all the shitty things they've done in life, and proceed to beat the shit out of said judge via exactly the sort of things Eiki would want to lecture her about, ultimately being rewarded for her sins, up to the absurdly literal case of her using the Rod of Remorse to increase her mass.
I for one have no problem with this. Like someone stated earlier, Mokou and Kaguya had to take them out one at a time to have a chance to win. Beside, can you even imagine how the next match would have went if Komachi and Shikieiki won and now took fights seriously? Yeah, I don't wanna see that.
And even if Komachi rushed in right now, I doubt she'll make it in time to stop the 3 seconds count that probably started at this moment. And barrier will probably stop her from using her manipulation of distance to be there right away.
You guys should also consider that there is no actual basis to Komachi or Shikieiki's ridiculous physical strenght beyond being non-humans from the actual games anyways.
Kaguya and Mokou though, yes there is PLENTY of reason to believe that they are both absurdly strong.
Also, those of you hating on Kaguya really have to learn to let it go, she's playing the crowd but she hasn't exactly done anything supremely awful besides lie. And Kaguya has done that her entire life, she can weave tales and keep people entertained (This has been said in some of the touhou print works) and knows exactly what most people want to see.
Frankly, I don't see being a performer as being a bad thing. She may not be taking this wrestling thing as personally as some participants but she's not taking it lightly either.
megaolix said: I for one have no problem with this. Like someone stated earlier, Mokou and Kaguya had to take them out one at a time to have a chance to win. Beside, can you even imagine how the next match would have went if Komachi and Shikieiki won and now took fights seriously? Yeah, I don't wanna see that.
And even if Komachi rushed in right now, I doubt she'll make it in time to stop the 3 seconds count that probably started at this moment. And barrier will probably stop her from using her manipulation of distance to be there right away.
You do realize that Moku and Kaguya might have won(we're not sure, this might be a Moriya miracle here) in an utterly contrived manner right? They took Komachi, who was fresh, out in three moves, and now are stomping someone who no-sold anything they did before Komachi went down like she's Cirno. On top of that those two have somehow gained more strength then the high judge of paradise out of nowhere, since this comic established only she was able to handle her rod in any sense of ease, but then Moku picked it up and threw it like a freaking lawn dart and Kaguya caught it IN HER MOUTH.
People are rightly upset because Dei Shirou pulled this table turn out of his ass.
finalagent said: You guys should also consider that there is no actual basis to Komachi or Shikieiki's ridiculous physical strenght beyond being non-humans from the actual games anyways.
I can't speak for Komachi, but Shikieiki is canonically very powerful.
Wallachia said: I can't speak for Komachi, but Shikieiki is canonically very powerful.
Just Sikieiki's aura scared Yukari into fleeing the scene with all haste. When said Gap had Yuyuko and Reimu with her. Those three unimaginably strong characters would have been no match for just Eiki, which was Yukari's tactical decision.
This is from a short story ZUN wrote as a sorta lead into PoFV. So a phantasm stage boss who can ignore the laws of reality, a stage six boss that can kill anything and the protagonist who can become invincible are combined vastly weaker then her.
cd_young said: So a phantasm stage boss who can ignore the laws of reality, a stage six boss that can kill anything and the protagonist who can become invincible are combined vastly weaker then her.
Which should come as no surprise. She will have to one day pass judgement on Yukari, Yuuka and Flandre after all. Eiki would be terribly unqualified for her job if she could be overpowered by any of them.
cd_young said: Just Sikieiki's aura scared Yukari into fleeing the scene with all haste. When said Gap had Yuyuko and Reimu with her. Those three unimaginably strong characters would have been no match for just Eiki, which was Yukari's tactical decision.
This is from a short story ZUN wrote as a sorta lead into PoFV. So a phantasm stage boss who can ignore the laws of reality, a stage six boss that can kill anything and the protagonist who can become invincible are combined vastly weaker then her.
The problem with this is that you have to put canon aside if you even want this tournament story to work. Else some fights simply become one-sided slaughter and then it's boring. Yes, in canon,, Shikieiki and Komachi should just own every match they're in the moment they start. Does that make a good story for a tournament fanwork? Hell no.
Me, I forgot thinking about canon the moment Alice tried to team up with Marisa. Since, you know, Alice would never consider it in canon.
This is basically the equivalent of China coming out of nowhere to beat Reimu or Yukari or, hell, Patchouli, humiliatingly easy in a contest of pure magical might.
For all the people saying "but they've been fighting each other for such a long time, that's how they got so strong", I have to disagree. Kaguya uses her magical artifacts and Lunarian mystical knowledge to fight. Mokou canonically was constantly losing badly until she got PHOENIX POWER so that she could fight back using magical flame-based attacks.
Other than to drive home how savage the two of them can be to each other, nothing has ever suggested that they did virtually any of their fighting hand to hand, and thus improved their physical talents. They're magical-reliant fighters. For them to suddenly make one of the top three (yes, this includes the two Oni) strongest characters in Gensokyou and a, while not explicitly strong, inherently all-around powerful enough to escort unruly spirits Shinigami, look like weaklings is...well, it's rubbing some people raw. People that really like Kaguya and Mokou, normally, for whom it isn't about character loyalty.
megaolix said: I forgot thinking about canon the moment Alice tried to team up with Marisa. Since, you know, Alice would never consider it in canon.
...What? Alice would never team up with Marisa? She did EXACTLY that in IN and she also helped Marisa in MoF and SA. Wow. Have you even played the games? Or at least browsed the wiki?
I just looked this page over again and one thing made me laugh, a little what if idea. Komachi rushes out to Shiki to check on her after hearing the news from Sanea only to see Shiki standing over the 2 as the winner making the viewers reading the comic wonder what the fudge happend during that fall one page ago. Heh yeah like that will happen, but hey we gotta use imaginations for something.
DHP said: I just looked this page over again and one thing made me laugh, a little what if idea. Komachi rushes out to Shiki to check on her after hearing the news from Sanea only to see Shiki standing over the 2 as the winner making the viewers reading the comic wonder what the fudge happend during that fall one page ago. Heh yeah like that will happen, but hey we gotta use imaginations for something.
If Dei Shirou does that, I'm still going to denounce the comic. Kaguya and Moku winning is bullshit, but Eiki coming back with an off screen curb stomp would be a deus ex machina level GM saving throw and thus a sign of the writer does not even believing in his own talent.
At the people saying that even Yukari was scared of her, that doesn't apply here, because Eiki would be at full power at that point. THEY ARE IN A BARRIER THAT SUPPRESSES MAGICALLY ENERGY. There is no proof that, without that magic, Eiki is physically strong. She's an Enma. A Judge of the Dead. Not a freaking fighting machine.
Besides, it was one cheap win over another. One way or another, this match, from the start, was going to be an ass-pull, if you want to call it that. But that doesn't change the fact that Mokou and Kaguya had to work for the win.
I followed this 4koma since the beginning just to see Eiki and Komachi, they finally appeared after so many 4koma, i waited and waited, but for this ? I expected so much from this match now i'm dissapointed, it's like seeing John Cena winning a fight, you saw this scene so many time you can't express any emotions,
I quess i'm just going to stop reading this, feel like i wasted my time reading this series and will delete my stuff from dei shirou so i can forgot what i've seen.
Hyperion_Zero said: ...What? Alice would never team up with Marisa? She did EXACTLY that in IN and she also helped Marisa in MoF and SA. Wow. Have you even played the games? Or at least browsed the wiki?
My apologies for not being clear enough. Let's do this again: Do you remember why Alice wanted to team up with Marisa in this? Yeah, fanon stuff.
megaolix said: The problem with this is that you have to put canon aside if you even want this tournament story to work. Else some fights simply become one-sided slaughter and then it's boring. Yes, in canon,, Shikieiki and Komachi should just own every match they're in the moment they start. Does that make a good story for a tournament fanwork? Hell no.
Some things have been horribly onesided as expected. Remember how quickly Reimu and Remilia beat Reisen and Youmu once they got serious? Or How desperate Ran and Chen's fight against Yuugi was? It's clear that in this Oni=OP to the point Yukari let Suika stick around as to have someone who could stop them.
It's easy to see the asspull power gain by comparing how strong the Immortals were at the start of match (Eiki easily tanked Mokou's attacks and tossed Kaguya out of the ring) to recently (Able to toss around the rod of remorse as if it was a toy, and recovering from their beatings superfast, to the point where tongue-biting was a valid tactic)
Shinkukage09 said: 1. Only...they didn't pull anything out of their ass. Both are immortal, and have been fighting close to non-stop for the last millenia. Human or not, Mokou, and Kaguya herself, are going to have a FUCKTON of stamina and pain tolerance. Kaguya got her shoulder dislocated, yes. It hurt like a bitch at first, yes. But she DOES have regeneration on her side, and this match went on FOREVER. Mokou's human, yes, but again, immortal. And fighting someone for that long over and over again is going to do two things:
Oh but they very much did.
1: You're going to get strong from that. It's like training constantly. No matter what, she HAS to be someone physically strong.
Physical limits. Immortal or not you can only get so physically strong. Mokou would have been at a huge disadvantage in a non danmaku battle. The fact she cannot die is her main perk.
2: You're going to know your enemies movements perfectly by this time. Thus you know everything your enemy, and in this case, partner can do.
Yet the author did not go this route. He in fact went the opposite.
They stayed true to what they do best. Fuck each other up. They just used that against their opponent. Stamina, my friend. Stamina. Plus, a partner kissing then BITING THE TONGUE OFF of their other partner is unexpect. And...squicky. Even Eiki's going to be thrown off...
Again while it might have caught her off guard, Eiki should have still recovered. If it had not been for the BS strength appearing out of nowhere (not mentioned anywhere in cannon fanon or even previously in the series, the immortals would have lost badly like they were are the start.
Which brings up another point. Kaguya nor Mokou could make Eikis strength at the start of the match yet they could at the end.
2. Higan Judgment did worse, though. They pulled even more dirty moves, and were almost purely psychological in everything they did. Komachi pissing Mokou off and literally threatening Keine was NOT. SMART. If, in canon, there is one person Mokou at least somewhat cares about, it's going to be Keine. Komachi doing that both pissed her off, and truly made the fight personal. Whether it was an empty threat or not.
Not so much about dirty fighting, more about the ridiculous setup, overall teamwork and intensity of point one.
Sakuya/Suika is another example. They should have lost when Orin had Sakuya in the choke hold.
3. OF course it'd cause rage. If Higan won, people'd be just as rage-y.
finalagent said: You guys should also consider that there is no actual basis to Komachi or Shikieiki's ridiculous physical strenght beyond being non-humans from the actual games anyways.
If you go by cannon and lump Eiki and Komachi into Youki, they yes compared to humans they are far stronger physically. Perfect momento is the source on that.
Kaguya and Mokou though, yes there is PLENTY of reason to believe that they are both absurdly strong.
Only in Damnaku not physical strength. Someone doesn't keep getting stronger and stronger. Physical limits apply.
Also, those of you hating on Kaguya really have to learn to let it go, she's playing the crowd but she hasn't exactly done anything supremely awful besides lie. And Kaguya has done that her entire life, she can weave tales and keep people entertained (This has been said in some of the touhou print works) and knows exactly what most people want to see.
As I said the artist is staying true to the source material.
Frankly, I don't see being a performer as being a bad thing. She may not be taking this wrestling thing as personally as some participants but she's not taking it lightly either. [/quote]
Zaku_Zelo said: So is this going to be the new Yuuku/Cirno vs Sanae/Suwako? As in, people are going to bring up that they hated the outcome at every possible opportunity?
Doubtful. If anything, it'll just be used as another point than being the new standard. Topping Yuuka/Cirno/Sanae/Suwako's ending in levels of BS will be pretty difficult.
Shinkukage09 said: At the people saying that even Yukari was scared of her, that doesn't apply here, because Eiki would be at full power at that point. THEY ARE IN A BARRIER THAT SUPPRESSES MAGICALLY ENERGY. There is no proof that, without that magic, Eiki is physically strong. She's an Enma. A Judge of the Dead. Not a freaking fighting machine.
Besides, it was one cheap win over another. One way or another, this match, from the start, was going to be an ass-pull, if you want to call it that. But that doesn't change the fact that Mokou and Kaguya had to work for the win.
First, she carries around something that grows in weight depending upon one's sins, I'd have to say that is proof of her strentgh.
You say there is no proof for Shiki, but by using your logic, there is also no proof for Kaguya and Mokou. As someone else said, they are magic reliant fighters in a magic suppressing barrier. They should be cannon fodder in all honesty. Being an immortal human that doesn't fist fight and uses fire magic to fight her fellow immortal rival does not equal superpower. Yes, they could potentially fist fight at the end when they've tired themselves out from magic, but regardless. An immortal human is still a human, no super strength. It doesn't work that way.
Anyways, logic tossing aside, I'm mostly just disappointed with Komachi getting beat so quickly and not really doing much.
Strange... I've read this entire comic through and this is the first time I found myself skipping strips because I couldn't take it. I read this because I find it entertaining, things like Yuuka getting pinned don't bother me because I don't care about power and I loved the story with her and Cirno. I didn't care about how the fight between Sanae and Flan went aside from the hope that it would be both losing because that would be interesting. It's not until Heaven & Hell that I actually gave a crap about who won but only because I want to see more from those two together.
But this... this felt sour for some reason... I don't know why though...
Funny, people that use the argument that "Mokou & Kaguya have the durability & physical strength for this wrestling match because they've been fighting a shit ton of times for eternity" just seem to forget that they mostly do DANMAKU BATTLES outside ring. I really have to ask, how do casting spellcards & getting hit by danmaku train your muscles? Or in some way, cause one to have passive buff spell like Byakuren's air muscles? I'm sure canon never said they have such spells.
C'mon, it's obvious that it was asspull plot armor. That match cast aside canon attributes so bad.
That's right!!The match...What about Eiki-sama!?Uuhh...If Eiki-san hadn't protected you, you could've been in a worse...You were knocked unconscious after taking three finishing moves.Ah, Komachi-san is awake.The Still Disabled BodyWhere...am I?Uh...hmm...Episode 695: Words That Chill the HeartFrom the Artist's Pixiv page.It's the infirmary.It's unfortunate...
- SanaeThe immortal duo...
- Sanae...has won.
- Sanae...but just now, she was defeated.
- Sanae