Esdeath literally sees all this as "If you're weak you die, if you're strong you survive". Thus taking the "survival of the fittest" to it's most extreme. She doesn't realize she's wrong because she sees it as natural selection. If you can't handle her atrocities that just means you're weak and thus need to be taken out. So at the end, when she was going to literally wipe out all life on the planet her reasoning was that humanity itself was too weak and needed to be culled.
She's definitely f*cking nuts, but unlike the emperor she didn't do what she did for personal gain, but because she believed that humanity was at its greatest when it was struggling to survive and succeeding at that struggle by destroying its enemy. But the only way to struggle is to fight, so by creating a "forever war" humanity would constantly fight and struggle and thus grow stronger because of it.
Iirc when the anime version was aired, a poll was conducted over who was their favorite character. Not surprisingly, both male and female voters choose Esdeath. Possibly because the anime tone down her worse traits.
Esdeath literally sees all this as "If you're weak you die, if you're strong you survive". Thus taking the "survival of the fittest" to it's most extreme. She doesn't realize she's wrong because she sees it as natural selection. If you can't handle her atrocities that just means you're weak and thus need to be taken out. So at the end, when she was going to literally wipe out all life on the planet her reasoning was that humanity itself was too weak and needed to be culled.
She's definitely f*cking nuts, but unlike the emperor she didn't do what she did for personal gain, but because she believed that humanity was at its greatest when it was struggling to survive and succeeding at that struggle by destroying its enemy. But the only way to struggle is to fight, so by creating a "forever war" humanity would constantly fight and struggle and thus grow stronger because of it.
That's just as worse as Honest himself who did do shit for nothing but evils sake.
Only she's hiding behind the pretense of survival of the fittest.
At least Honest had the decency to live up to his name.
We already saw that at a young age she was very twisted in her own ways she just used the whole survival of the fittest thing to mask her own twisted nature.
If she really went by that belief rather than take her time to draw out her enemies suffering she would instead opt to just instantly kill them to assert her whole dominance as the strongest.
But instead she opts for the cruelest most inhumane ways to kill or torture her enemies instead.
Not to mention that type of nonsense thinking is what gives birth to lunatics like this one and even some of the ones in history.
Hitler comes to mind "Me andy superior race are better everyone else needs to die"
Esdeath literally sees all this as "If you're weak you die, if you're strong you survive". Thus taking the "survival of the fittest" to it's most extreme. She doesn't realize she's wrong because she sees it as natural selection. If you can't handle her atrocities that just means you're weak and thus need to be taken out. So at the end, when she was going to literally wipe out all life on the planet her reasoning was that humanity itself was too weak and needed to be culled.
She's definitely f*cking nuts, but unlike the emperor she didn't do what she did for personal gain, but because she believed that humanity was at its greatest when it was struggling to survive and succeeding at that struggle by destroying its enemy. But the only way to struggle is to fight, so by creating a "forever war" humanity would constantly fight and struggle and thus grow stronger because of it.
this is like saying enrico pucci is actually a good guy because he thinks what he does is good
this is like saying enrico pucci is actually a good guy because he thinks what he does is good
Depends on which moral system you judge the the character by. Other than that you have to start arguing about which moral system is the best, and let's not.
YouWillFearmyLaserNipple said: She's one of the most fucked up characters to date there is literally no redeeming qualities for her other than she's hot.
Don't exaggerate like that, even the noble girl from the very start, Aria, was as a character more "fucked up".
Liking evil characters is fine, as long as they understand that they're EVIL.
Duh. I'm talking about others who are embarrassed to like them. Or those who demonize others for liking villains. It's why people try to justify their actions.
The only thing I can say is that Esdeath was the only character in that series that had a modus operandi beyond just being a gigantic asshole and/or rapist. Everyone else seemed to revel in their own over-the-top actions, but she was at least a compelling villain since she had a goal but her achieving that goal wouldn't be a good thing, so she needs to be stopped. It's something to latch onto to give her actions more depth.
I prefer her over whatever the fuck villains came after her.
The only thing I can say is that Esdeath was the only character in that series that had a modus operandi beyond just being a gigantic asshole and/or rapist. Everyone else seemed to revel in their own over-the-top actions, but she was at least a compelling villain since she had a goal but her achieving that goal wouldn't be a good thing, so she needs to be stopped. It's something to latch onto to give her actions more depth.
I prefer her over whatever the fuck villains came after her.
No villains came 'after her'. She was the final fight of the series. That said, almost every other villain being scum of the Earth (what about the Jaegers, many of whom weren't outright evil) doesn't mean she isn't scum herself. "Cool motive, still murder" is a meme, but its also accurate.
Also, as has been pointed out, she enjoys torture and slavery, which are unnecessary for her survival. And her quest for 'love' would also be meaningless if she actually believed in survival of the fittest. She's just a hypocrite who uses fake Darwinism to justify herself, much like most other social Darwinist-type villains (like X-Men's Apocalypse). They talk like that as long as they are the strongest, but put them in a situation where they are actually subjected to the same crap they put others through and they balk.
I don't mean her dying on her own terms in a quick, painless death (another example of her hypocrisy; if she really believed her claims she'd have submitted to Akame's judgement once Akame won). I mean, if someone had defeated her in a way that let her be captured alive and subjected to the same crap she forced on others, she'd start complaining real quick.
And NegativeSoul made it sound like her eternal winter stunt was done with the intention of making humanity stronger. No, she tacked on that justification afterwards, when it was pointed out her stunt would kill countless people all over the world. She originally did it just to force the surviving rebels to fight her on her terms.
No villains came 'after her'. She was the final fight of the series. That said, almost every other villain being scum of the Earth (what about the Jaegers, many of whom weren't outright evil) doesn't mean she isn't scum herself. "Cool motive, still murder" is a meme, but its also accurate.
Also, as has been pointed out, she enjoys torture and slavery, which are unnecessary for her survival. And her quest for 'love' would also be meaningless if she actually believed in survival of the fittest. She's just a hypocrite who uses fake Darwinism to justify herself, much like most other social Darwinist-type villains (like X-Men's Apocalypse). They talk like that as long as they are the strongest, but put them in a situation where they are actually subjected to the same crap they put others through and they balk.
I don't mean her dying on her own terms in a quick, painless death (another example of her hypocrisy; if she really believed her claims she'd have submitted to Akame's judgement once Akame won). I mean, if someone had defeated her in a way that let her be captured alive and subjected to the same crap she forced on others, she'd start complaining real quick.
And NegativeSoul made it sound like her eternal winter stunt was done with the intention of making humanity stronger. No, she tacked on that justification afterwards, when it was pointed out her stunt would kill countless people all over the world. She originally did it just to force the surviving rebels to fight her on her terms.
I meant after her was the replacement unit with the Prince who had no character depth.
My point was that she had an actual motivation, not that her motivation means she isn't evil.
She's one of the most fucked up characters to date there is literally no redeeming qualities for her other than she's hot.
Which is why I find it so odd that she gets paired with people who would detest her very existence at times.
Correct she is evil, but people who like her tend to ignore that and focus on positives. The most interesting part when it comes to character of Esdeath is that even though she is considered very evil she can be lovely -dovey and cute towards her love interest, which makes a Moe gap. Thus making kinda interesting character plus yes she is sexy. I must admit though lately for me the evil side of hers is more visible...
Correct she is evil, but people who like her tend to ignore that and focus on positives. The most interesting part when it comes to character of Esdeath is that even though she is considered very evil she can be lovely -dovey and cute towards her love interest, which makes a Moe gap. Thus making kinda interesting character plus yes she is sexy. I must admit though lately for me the evil side of hers is more visible...
I wouldn't exactly call what she has a Moe gap since the so called gap is one hell of a huge leap when her standard mode of operation as a human is to literally be one hell of evil bitch.
Being a hateful all around or aggressive and having said lovey dovey qualities I'd call that a Moe gap.
The shit she does doesn't really make the attempt here work since the attempts at a gap doesn't lessen the horrific shit she does.
If anything like with her being hot it feels more like the author trying to distract people with said shitty characteristics with shit most people would eat up without a second thought.
This thread turned into a war, the fact people don't just dislike her but hate her this much means she is very well written. It's hard to make a villain someone you can actually hate. Her psychopathic tenancies make her unbearable and unsafe to be around but she does have other qualities like loyalty, honesty, and trust; all of which most people would consider positive. This all makes her very realistic, most human leaders are like her. Let's not forget Hitler had a wife and kids; He wasn't exactly super hot, but you might say he was passionate and a smooth talker.
This thread turned into a war, the fact people don't just dislike her but hate her this much means she is very well written. It's hard to make a villain someone you can actually hate. Her psychopathic tenancies make her unbearable and unsafe to be around but she does have other qualities like loyalty, honesty, and trust; all of which most people would consider positive. This all makes her very realistic, most human leaders are like her. Let's not forget Hitler had a wife and kids; He wasn't exactly super hot, but you might say he was passionate and a smooth talker.
I believe that argument that started this thread wasn't the quality of writing but wether the thing she did was justified which it wasn't people can be so horny there willing to forgive a character for fucking genocide lol it okay to be horny or like a character but try justify the fuck up shit they did
Depends on which moral system you judge the the character by. Other than that you have to start arguing about which moral system is the best, and let's not.
Don't exaggerate like that, even the noble girl from the very start, Aria, was as a character more "fucked up".
I don't know man I don't think people deserving to die because there "weak" is something you could argue unless your a lunatic edge lord or come up with a super hyper situational way that it would be justified
I believe that argument that started this thread wasn't the quality of writing but wether the thing she did was justified which it wasn't people can be so horny there willing to forgive a character for fucking genocide lol it okay to be horny or like a character but try justify the fuck up shit they did
People are doing the same with Ganondorf from Totk.