Danbooru

Tag Discussion: banchou, yankee, delinquent, ouendan (wait, what?)

Posted under General

banchou - "A term for a stereotypical Japanese high school delinquent which originates from the 70's."

Okay, sounds good.

yankee - "In the late 1970s, the term Yanki (Yanke) has been used to refer to a type of violent and delinquent youth in Japan."

Wait, that sounds familiar... it clarifies that manga depicts them as female. This seems to be our (common) usage, but it should be clear.

delinquent has no definition, but shares a lot of posts with the other two.

bousouzoku is a bike gang. But once again, it seems to call out a lot of the aspects of the others.

Which leads to post #75501, what started this little question in my head. I think it's an ouendan (which may well need a cleanup of its own); they don't look too rowdy to me. And sometimes, a gakuran is just a gakuran.

Opinions on what to do about this?

Updated by wanchan

Oh stang, I should have known that this had come up already. Right, so a year ago and five months ago. Third time's the charm; let's do this.

gangster seems to have settled on the roaring '20s, so that's of little concern.

Several people are in favour of removing banchou for the sake of it being technically impossible to see. Some want to redefine it, which seems sort of odd.

There's disagreement as to whether bousouzoku are delinquents or not.

yankee, as I noted, seems to have a bias toward women, but I haven't seen anyone claim that they're not delinquents, so implication would seem to be the order of the day.

Yeah, post #75501 is definitely ouendan, which is something else entirely and shouldn't be included, except for purposes of cleaning it up.

As I mentioned before in forum #27850, I would manually change most of what's under gangster to mafia, alias mobster to mafia, and use gangster as the umbrella. Yakuza would fall under gangster, as well.

There's disagreement as to whether bousouzoku are delinquents or not.

For the purpose of classification, they and yankee should be, especially considering how much one borrows from another stylistically.

Though I'm not quite sure what to do with bousouzoku. Rather, what the guidelines should be for it. It's just awfully difficult differentiating between that and yankee sometimes due to the amount of crossover.

Now, I don't personally think yankee is really a female thing, even in manga. Though, in light of that, maybe using it as such would be easier, in which case we could just use banchou for males? Even though I know both yankee and banchou aren't necessarily gender specific, but as long as we're going that way, why not? It seems simple.

Finally, as I said before, we would then implicate bousouzoku, yankee, etc., to delinquent. You could say delinquent would be used as a cover for gangs typically associated with youth and gangster for the real deal, basically.

UnderneathTheWaves said:
Though I'm not quite sure what to do with bousouzoku. Rather, what the guidelines should be for it. It's just awfully difficult differentiating between that and yankee sometimes due to the amount of crossover.

Presence of two-wheeled vehicular paraphernalia?

Now, I don't personally think yankee is really a female thing, even in manga. Though, in light of that, maybe using it as such would be easier, in which case we could just use banchou for males? Even though I know both yankee and banchou aren't necessarily gender specific, but as long as we're going that way, why not? It seems simple.

No objection to implicationg the various young roaming bands of thugs to delinquent, but even in light of the observation re:yankee in manga, I hesitate to redefine terms unless it's necessary.

Can we not find some other way? For example, must we use Japanese terms to describe this?

Last I heard, yankee was not a gender-specific term. That honor belongs to sukeban (for females).

Yankee refers to the loud, obnoxious delinquents seen in typical Japanese media.
The males usually have pierced ears, permed hair, a sloppily-worn gakuran, and bleach their hair brown or blonde.
The females usually wear their seifuku with the skirt long (ostensibly, to hide weapons or other contraband), also bleach their hair, and... that's about it for the female half of the stereotype that I'm aware.

Also, I'm fairly sure banchou refers to the leader of a delinquent gang, not just a member.

I think UnderneathTheWaves summed it the best (forum #46161), but more can be done to really clear up the tags. Obviously as mentioned in the Yankee wiki it is for both genders, but if one outweighs the other in a certain medium I usually go with it. So sorry if the wiki prevented anyone from adding other images, I didn't realize it was that off putting. How about starting fresh with the wikis mentioned and deleting them, then specifying, danbooru wise, what images should be sorted under each tag.

For the images currently under the mentioned tags, how about tagging all of them under delinquent or gang so they will be reworked for sorting. It will be tedious to sort the images if they are under each and we currently have no image guide to work with.

Bousouzoku - Should be the main one in use, but what depiction do you guys want to go with, the caricature type? A female bousouzoku in a skirt is odd imo, but I guess if it is portraying the stereotypical look (like a costume) then it seems to be alright. jumpsuit, pompadour, motorcycle, bandages, bokken??

For example post #145895, post #703215, characters doing the squatting pose or standing pose and holding a bokken but is not dressed as either bousouzoku or yankee... should it be bousouzoku_style / bousouzoku_pose?

Yankee - Should be the one under delinquent. School uniform wearing trouble makers, so make the wiki more obvious that it is both genders. gakuran, serafuku, bleached hair, bouken??

Banchou and Sukeban both seem to be used specifically for leader titles, so unless the leader is obvious, the tag doesn't seem to be of use. In at least one image there is someone with a bouken... does that defy the leader (or side man) if you can see no title on their clothing?

Ouendan - All the images are correct, no clean up needed.

Gangster -> mafia / yakuza

Updated

+1 to bousouzoku for the non-uniform types (allowing ouendan-style coats along with the other types of long coats that they wear, but leaving the ouendan tag for the actual cheering teams), and yankee for those in uniform; that seems to cover all the bases without getting too complex.

It's probably also worth mentioning chest wrappings; they're a common feature of the bousouzoku look, especially with no shirt under a long coat. (Incidentally, post #703215 has such a coat, including the slogans written on it, so with the bokken there as well I'd just count it as straight-up bousouzoku. I see your point about post #145895, though.)

If we're regarding banchou and sukeban as just the leaders, then they're probably useless for tagging unless we have clear visual signs to look for. Would the peaked leather cap like Kuujou Joutarou usually wears count for banchou, or is that common to lesser gang members too?

I really can't think of anything that visibly distinguishes leaders from general female yankees, and indeed one of the only two posts we have with the sukeban tag (post #539836) is straight-up bousouzoku style anyway; there's nothing school-uniform (male or female) about that getup.

(Edit to add: maybe the surgical masks? Or is that a general girl-gang thing as well, not just the leader? The other sukeban image we have, post #646867, doesn't have one of those either - or almost any other distinguishing features, come to that.)

Someone in a previous thread suggested mobster for the Chicago-style gangsters (and they seem to be the primary use for the tag); if you think it needs changing for clarity, that's probably a better choice than mafia or yakuza.

Updated

kounishin said:
+1 to bousouzoku for the non-uniform types (allowing ouendan-style coats along with the other types of long coats that they wear, but leaving the ouendan tag for the actual cheering teams), and yankee for those in uniform; that seems to cover all the bases without getting too complex.

+1; This distinction seems sufficient.

If we're regarding banchou and sukeban as just the leaders, then they're probably useless for tagging unless we have clear visual signs to look for. Would the peaked leather cap like Kuujou Joutarou usually wears count for banchou, or is that common to lesser gang members too?

On this, if there's a clear leader of a group, I should think ~bousouzoku ~yankee gang sufficient.

Unicogirl, was gangster -> mafia/yakuza supposed to be an alias or an implication?

DschingisKhan said:
Unicogirl, was gangster -> mafia/yakuza supposed to be an alias or an implication?

Possibly gangster as the (what is it called?) group tag, unless people want to keep gangster as one thing and mobster for another, but the are both the same thing.

In my opinion:

Banchou:
characters in attire resembling post #279253, specifically with emphasis on the cape-like coat, the hat, and the holding of a (straw?) in one's mouth...

Yankee:
For girls, I would look for long skirts...
If we're going to include boys, then I would focus on pompadours...

Bousouzoku:
Wearing a motto and/or the presence of motorcycle(s) are almost always enough justification for me...

Banchou:
characters in attire resembling post #279253, specifically with emphasis on the cape-like coat, the hat, and the holding of a (straw?) in one's mouth...

Two characters specifically calling on this trope are "Banchou" from Gatekeepers and Banchouleomon, who both have the gakuran and cap - the latter wearing the gakuran as a cloak and even has the straw (hard to find pictures of the former).

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