[Fate] Fully separating Jeanne d'arc and Jalter

BUR #8959 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

remove implication jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)
mass update jeanne_d'arc_(fate) jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) chartags:2 -> char:jeanne_d'arc_alter_(avenger)_(fate)
create alias jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(avenger)_(fate)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(avenger)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate)

A fix to the impasse with the costume situation.

Keeping them under the same umbrella is a pain in the ass for a long number of reasons already discussed under a ton of old topics. It's just easier for tagging and searching to keep them separated. They're visually distinct characters, often depicted together as separated characters, there's no reason to have an umbrella tag other than "we always did".

Even the F/GO wiki keeps them separate.

This thread is not about Artoria/Tamamo/whatever. Those are completely different messes, not as clear-cut as this. Please don't derail the discussion with them.

Only question is whether the lily form should be its own character, or be under alter. For some gacha lily forms (medea_(lily)_(fate)) we keep them separate, while others we keep them implied, so a separate discussion is needed. For now I'm just preserving the status quo.

The (Lily) characters definitely could use their own thread. The way we treat them is very inconsistent.
Other than that I’m glad to see this solution resurface and taken seriously.

nonamethanks said:

Only question is whether the lily form should be its own character, or be under alter. For some gacha lily forms (medea_(lily)_(fate)) we keep them separate, while others we keep them implied, so a separate discussion is needed. For now I'm just preserving the status quo.

The in-franchise explanation for Lily Servants is that they depict a character in their younger years, which is what medea (lily) (fate) and saber lily actually are - their younger selves before they became a notorious witch and a great king, respectively. It’s not quite entirely a light persona, but they tend to be more wide-eyed and naive compared to their more infamous adult counterparts. The interactions they have with other characters suggest that they are still the same person but just at a different age, rather than some completely separate parallel world mindfuckery variant that Fate is notorious for. To make this even more of a mind-screw, not every ‘younger’ version of a character is given the Lily title, like Child Gilgamesh, Alexander, and Setanta. Sometimes the Lily title is slapped on as a fan nickname to separate them from their adult counterpart, like Fergus, Christopher Columbus, and Kiara.

Yes, I am perfectly aware that I just swamped you with information that you probably couldn’t care less about. Believe me, I don’t enjoy trying to figure this shit out myself. All I just wanted to prove is that the series itself is wildly inconsistent with its handling of the Lily title, so it would be better for our collective sanity to leave the status quo as it is, IMO.

EDIT: Jeanne d'Arc Alter Santa Lily is a younger version of Jeanne Alter with the Santa label as an in-joke character as usual. First I agreed she's kept under the Alter because of that.

Now, my reasoning falls apart because Elizabeth Bathory, for example, is a younger version of Carmilla. I don't need to talk about how different they are. I can imagine what's going to happen with other characters that shouldn't be discussed here. So to keep consistency, I agree with the solo tag.

Medea lily is considered a solo tag, so no reason to treat Santa Alter any different.

Gonna split this into four parts and run them manually so I can fix cosplay posts between each step.

The bulk update request #8959 (forum #205994) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #9229 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

category jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate) -> character

Missed this.

The bulk update request #9229 (forum #207422) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #9230 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

remove alias jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(avenger)_(fate)
create alias jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate)

Adjusting the alias

The bulk update request #9230 (forum #207424) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #9231 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

remove implication jeanne_d'arc_(alter_swimsuit_berserker)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)
mass update jeanne_d'arc_(fate) jeanne_d'arc_(alter_swimsuit_berserker)_(fate) chartags:2 -> char:jeanne_d'arc_alter_(swimsuit_berserker)_(fate)
create alias jeanne_d'arc_(alter_swimsuit_berserker)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(swimsuit_berserker)_(fate)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(swimsuit_berserker)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate)

Handling the berserker tag

The bulk update request #9231 (forum #207428) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #9232 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

remove implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)
mass update jeanne_d'arc_(fate) jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily_(fate) chartags:2 -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily_(fate)

Handling jeanne alter lily. I'm getting cold feet about it, jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily_(fate) jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) is all pictures of both together. It doesn't look like people were tagging her with the original alter tags. I'll just separate them for now, given the state of Medea Lily. We can revisit this in the future.

Edit: i just noticed that she too has her own costumes separated from the other two jeannes, so yeah, separating them is a must.

The bulk update request #9232 (forum #207430) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #9233 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

mass update wicked_dragon_witch_ver._shinjuku_1999 cosplay -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(ver._shinjuku_1999)_(fate)_(cosplay)
mass update ~wicked_dragon_witch_ver._shinjuku_1999 ~jeanne_d'arc_alter_(ver._shinjuku_1999)_(fate) jeanne_d'arc_alter_(avenger)_(fate) -> char:jeanne_d'arc_alter_(ver._shinjuku_1999)_(fate)
create alias wicked_dragon_witch_ver._shinjuku_1999 -> char:jeanne_d'arc_alter_(ver._shinjuku_1999)_(fate)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(ver._shinjuku_1999)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate)

Moving the wicked dragon costume to its own chartag.

The bulk update request #9233 (forum #207432) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

nonamethanks said:

Edit: i just noticed that she too has her own costumes separated from the other two jeannes, so yeah, separating them is a must.

This does kinda mean we're substituting the issue with another for anyone who has a Lily form, doesn't it? Especially if that Lily form has alternate forms itself. For example it means that Leonardo da Vinci's Rider form has to be separated from her regular form and there'll be no more tag for all Da Vinci art in one query (unless we get in the business of once again making catchall tags after removing them in the first place.)
It's probably better that way than to have it the way it currently is (what with the lolivinci costumes only being tagged alongside the regular da Vinci tag rather than the loli/Rider tag, see post #5140457 for example) but it still feels weird not to have a general tag for da Vinci or whoever else might be in that situation. Medea, Jalter now, probably others?

BUR #9236 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

And now implying the remaining costumes to the main tag. I manually removed the avenger tag from them.