The Vtuber Alternate Costume Tagging Proposal

Honestly, if we're renaming Nth costumes, we should rename the 1st costumes to like "Original" or something close to that

TheGamingRodent said:

Honestly, if we're renaming Nth costumes, we should rename the 1st costumes to like "Original" or something close to that

Well, not every 1st costume tagged is the "original", think of Shiranui Flare (Old Design) or Momosuzu Nene (Old Design) for example. And then you have someone like AZKi, for whom that format doesn't work.

Also it's been discussed on Discord that we've held off renaming the "nth costume" tags to descriptives because there might be disagreements with what to name them. Although I'll say that _(default) should be the norm for _(1st_costume) or any applicable case where their old defaults were superseded by new ones. I have to agree with Evazion on the urgency to rename the tags so long as they've been populated adequately since it's a constant source of confusion as well as to finally settle the issue with collab outfits that have proper rigs but are excluded from the nth_costume system.

TrueKringe said:

BUR #17251 has been rejected.

mass update houshou_marine nun -> houshou_marine_(nun)

As discussed earlier in this thread, we agreed that the specific nun outfit for Houshou Marine (post #4880115) is distinctive enough to deserve its own tag, even though it is not an official costume. Primarily due to it being recognized by Marine herself, that she often uses this specific outfit for her confession streams, and that several tags of characters wearing this specific nun outfit were tagged with Houshou Marine (cosplay), which proves that it was widely associated with her enough to earn its own tag.

Also, as I already checked, there are only one Houshou Marine + nun post that didn't feature this specific outfit, so this will make the bulk update quite easy.

Uh, how is this request got rejected when there's so many people who agreed with this?

TrueKringe said:

Uh, how is this request got rejected when there's so many people who agreed with this?

Welcome to Danbooru democracy.

BUR #18891 has been approved by @evazion.

create implication ceres_fauna_(1st_costume) -> ceres_fauna
create implication ceres_fauna_(2nd_costume) -> ceres_fauna
create implication ceres_fauna_(3rd_costume) -> ceres_fauna
create implication nanashi_mumei_(1st_costume) -> nanashi_mumei
create implication nanashi_mumei_(2nd_costume) -> nanashi_mumei
create implication nanashi_mumei_(3rd_costume) -> nanashi_mumei
create implication ouro_kronii_(1st_costume) -> ouro_kronii
create implication ouro_kronii_(2nd_costume) -> ouro_kronii
create implication ouro_kronii_(3rd_costume) -> ouro_kronii
create implication irys_(old_design)_(hololive) -> irys_(hololive)
create implication irys_(1st_costume)_(hololive) -> irys_(hololive)
create implication irys_(2nd_costume)_(hololive) -> irys_(hololive)

Just to finish the rest of CouncilRyS costume implications

TrueKringe said:

Uh, how is this request got rejected when there's so many people who agreed with this?

I did it manually. There were a couple posts that didn't count and some that were under other tags like habit.

The bulk update request #18891 (forum #249919) has been approved by @evazion.

BUR #18899 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication melody_(projektmelody)_(1st_costume) -> melody_(projektmelody)
create implication melody_(projektmelody)_(2nd_costume) -> melody_(projektmelody)
create implication melody_(projektmelody)_(mel's_hype) -> melody_(projektmelody)
create implication melody_(projektmelody)_(4th_costume) -> melody_(projektmelody)
create implication melody_(projektmelody)_(race_queen) -> melody_(projektmelody)
create implication melody_(projektmelody)_(cybermel) -> melody_(projektmelody)
create implication strawberry_baelz -> hakos_baelz
create implication blackberry_baelz -> hakos_baelz

.

To begin the descriptive qualifier pitching, we need to first begin with subdividing the existing Hololive costume tags, so we know what we're dealing with. I'll try to sort these out as best as I can. If there's any complaints, just know I wrote this out manually over an hour and a half at around midnight.

First off, we have the base costumes, the ones most fanart will depict. "Original" is out of the question because of the aforementioned (Old Design) tags. Something like "default" or "base" could work, but then we'd have to consider the prospect of having to rename those tags in the event of the costume being replaced with a new one. The following tags apply (I'll also list the old designs just for posterity, they aren't counted):

Second, we have what is probably the most consistently common costume theme, New Years.

Third, I'll lump together here the 'casual' costumes. Those will be not just those generally labeled as casual, but also those labeled as streetwear, etc. "Casual" would probably not be a useful descriptive, so there may be some debating over these.

Two subcategories that stood out of all of these were the school uniforms and the loungewear.

Fourth, I'll lump together here the dresses. "Dress" might seem like an appealing descriptive, but a lot of these dresses are in fairly different styles, so maybe it might not work.

I'll lump as a subcategory the ethnic and business costumes here.

Fifth, we have the 3D costumes. These include both regular 3D costumes (for non-3D members), and 3D concert costumes. The latter can reliably be named after their titular 3D Lives if they have names.

Sixth, here we have Hololive Summer 2019 swimsuits. "Hololive Summer 2019" seems fair enough.

Whatever format is adopted here could also be utilized for later individual swimsuit designs we have that never got models (because evazion has blown the lid off of that by making Marine's Nun costume a tag), such as Noel's swimsuit design (ex. post #4044870 from merch) or Matsuri's 2020 design (ex. post #4026295 in concept art).

Seventh, we have the cosplay ones. These can probably be labeled per their cosplay, with precedent set by Marine's Nun costume.

Finally, we have the ones that don't really fit into any of the above. They can be segmented further down, but you can see that for yourself.

evazion said:

I did it manually. There were a couple posts that didn't count and some that were under other tags like habit.

So I guess I have to manually tag and detag all of these myself or smth?

Edit: Nvm, it was sorted out as you said, thanks.

I'd say it's gonna be easier going one vtuber at a time than some massive BUR. As for any default being memoryholed, that's a bridge we'll cross when it comes to us, chances are we are just gonna do what we have been doing and rename it to (old_design).

BUR #18919 has been rejected.

create alias tokino_sora_(1st_costume) -> tokino_sora_(default)
create alias tokino_sora_(3rd_costume) -> tokino_sora_(casual)
create alias tokino_sora_(4th_costume) -> tokino_sora_(2022_birthday_dress)
create alias tokino_sora_(5th_costume) -> tokino_sora_(new_year)
create alias tokino_sora_(6th_costume) -> tokino_sora_(streetwear)

Some considerations:

• The design sheet for her 4th costume refers it to just as "2022 birthday", but I think we should have dress as a better descriptor.
• Her 6th outfit is referred as "パーカー" which would be translated as hoodie, but I feel like it's too ambiguous, specially since hoodies and hooded jackets are quite common accesories for outfits and the design aligns more with our concept of streetwear.

Mexiguy said:

I'd say it's gonna be easier going one vtuber at a time than some massive BUR.

I would've thought it would've been easier to concentrate on costume themes, mainly for the purpose of establishing consistent descriptives for most applications, and in turn quickly establish precedent. But if everyone would prefer to instead to go even more piecemeal and concentrate on individual VTubers instead, that's fine. Anything to get the discussion going suffices.

For the proposed descriptives for Sora, I'll +1 it but share my thoughts too. Having dress as a 'base' descriptor alongside further data if necessary sounds like a solid idea. I've given my take on 'default', so no need to repeat it. Using 'new year' is simple and effective. Really, the only thing that worries me is 'casual' and 'streetwear', mainly because folks may have different understanding of what either of those entail. At least with the latter you're aligning it with our conceptualization of streetwear, so that makes it fine, but the former could inspire further mistagging of casual (though frankly, that tag is probably heavily mistagged already, so is it any issue?).

Damian0358 said:

I would've thought it would've been easier to concentrate on costume themes, mainly for the purpose of establishing consistent descriptives for most applications, and in turn quickly establish precedent. But if everyone would prefer to instead to go even more piecemeal and concentrate on individual VTubers instead, that's fine. Anything to get the discussion going suffices.

Well, the problem with going by themes is that I don't think that besides obvious stuff like new_year, anniversary, hololive_summer and so on I don't think we are gonna reach a feasible one-size-fits-all solution. Hell right now I was gonna start making the Roboco BUR and realized that all her outfits could be considered "casual".

For the proposed descriptives for Sora, I'll +1 it but share my thoughts too. Having dress as a 'base' descriptor alongside further data if necessary sounds like a solid idea. I've given my take on 'default', so no need to repeat it. Using 'new year' is simple and effective. Really, the only thing that worries me is 'casual' and 'streetwear', mainly because folks may have different understanding of what either of those entail. At least with the latter you're aligning it with our conceptualization of streetwear, so that makes it fine, but the former could inspire further mistagging of casual (though frankly, that tag is probably heavily mistagged already, so is it any issue?).

Well, I'd prefer if we kept the qualifiers simple and concise, Sora's 4th outfit is referred to as "casual clothes" both by her and the artist, and I couldn't think of a simple descriptor that didn't sound silly e.g: (pink_shirt_and_brown_skirt) or that didn't need any knowledge that a random uploader who doesn't follow hololive religiously couldn't understand e.g: (date_outfit).

Mexiguy said:

Well, the problem with going by themes is that I don't think that besides obvious stuff like new_year, anniversary, hololive_summer and so on I don't think we are gonna reach a feasible one-size-fits-all solution. Hell right now I was gonna start making the Roboco BUR and realized that all her outfits could be considered "casual".

Yeah, part of what I had hoped with my 'casual' categorization was for folks to realize "wait what the fuck several vtubers have several costumes which could all be defined to some extent as 'casual'" and in turn encourage discussion on what at least most of them would be called, because as you say, a one-size-fits-all solution won't be possible - but we can achieve a one-size-fits-most solution, and that's what's important.

Well, I'd prefer if we kept the qualifiers simple and concise, Sora's 4th outfit is referred to as "casual clothes" both by her and the artist, and I couldn't think of a simple descriptor that didn't sound silly e.g: (pink_shirt_and_brown_skirt) or that didn't need any knowledge that a random uploader who doesn't follow hololive religiously couldn't understand e.g: (date_outfit).

Agreed, to an extent - we'd also have to make sure the qualifiers to some extent 'fit' too, relative to the posts on site. The last thing we need is someone spamming hololive_girl_(swimsuit) on every image where they wear a swimsuit, regardless of any other tags or whether the swimsuit is one they're associated with, or similar.

Here are my propositions for Roboco, as I said before, her outifts are perhaps the hardest to qualify since they could all be considered "casual", so I had to go with the main piece of clothing:

roboco-san_(2nd_costume) -> roboco_san_(hoodie)
roboco-san_(3rd_costume) -> roboco-san_(t-shirt)
roboco-san_(4th_costume) -> roboco-san_(hololive_summer_2019)
roboco-san_(5th_costume) -> roboco-san_(spring_sweater)
roboco-san_(6th_costume) -> roboco-san_(new_year)
roboco-san_(7th_costume) -> roboco-san_(dark_bride)
roboco-san_(8th_costume) -> roboco-san_(sportswear)

For the 8th outfit I'm not too sure because although in the unofficial japanese wiki they call it "sports clothes" but the design doesn't really match out concept of sportswear, and I think that (tank_top) or (camisole) isn't really a good qualifier since it's not the main motif and (pink_jacket) overlaps with hers 2nd outfit.

Mexiguy said:

For the 8th outfit I'm not too sure because although in the unofficial japanese wiki they call it "sports clothes" but the design doesn't really match out concept of sportswear, and I think that (tank_top) or (camisole) isn't really a good qualifier since it's not the main motif and (pink_jacket) overlaps with hers 2nd outfit.

Perhaps (workoutwear)? Without the pink jacket it has, it does feel like it'd fit closer to what folks would call workout clothes than sportswear.

It's about Oozora subaru.

oozora subaru (1st costume) -> oozora_subaru_(basic)
oozora subaru (2nd costume) -> oozora_subaru_(police)?
oozora subaru (3rd costume) -> oozora_subaru_(swimsuit_2019) or oozora_subaru_(summer_2019)
oozora subaru (4th costume) -> oozora_subaru_(new_year_2020)
oozora subaru (5th costume) -> oozora_subaru_(virgin_killer)
oozora subaru (6th costume) -> oozora_subaru_(idol)
oozora subaru (7th costume) -> oozora_subaru_(duck-themed) or oozora_subaru_(loungewear)

The most uncertain of them all is the oozora subaru (2nd costume).
It's a costume worn on the "Oozora Police department" stream, but it doesn't seem to have much of a police connection. maybe peaked cap max?
we need a more appropriate name.

For events that come back every time (e.g. new_year, summer, birthday, ...), it would be nice to have a certain year in the ending. However, for searchability, we need to discuss whether we should use event names or outfit names like swimsuit or kimono.

AkaringoP said:

The most uncertain of them all is the oozora subaru (2nd costume).
It's a costume worn on the "Oozora Police department" stream, but it doesn't seem to have much of a police connection. maybe peaked cap max?
we need a more appropriate name.

I don't think her 2nd costume was made exclusively for the police streams though. I think she just used it because it was the closest thing she had to something police-like, especially when compared to her default.

Of course, we could use casual since without the idol top it kinda looks it, or school_uniform or seifuku because the idol top is seifuku-coded. Speaking of idols, I find idol for the sixth not particularly good, because like my example earlier with swimsuit one could imagine severe mistags on posts that should have hololive idol uniform or what have you, and that'd probably still be the case with something like 2022_idol because of the 2022 HoloFes variant uniform. anniversary_idol would be ambiguous if she gets another one in the future. Honestly, given it is partially based on her 2nd costume, maybe the best case would be to slap idol onto whatever the 2nd costume gets as a qualifier - like seifuku_idol or whatever. We can work on this.

If we're following the precedent set by Mexiguy, the qualifier for her 1st costume should be default, and 3rd should be (hololive_summer_2019). And 5th could potentially be casual because, honestly, I think it's more accessible than virgin killer.

For events that come back every time (e.g. new_year, summer, birthday, ...), it would be nice to have a certain year in the ending. However, for searchability, we need to discuss whether we should use event names or outfit names like swimsuit or kimono.

Well, based on Mexiguy's precedent, we are somewhat going with that, but let's also consider the necessity of it. To my knowledge, Hololive members have only ever gotten two kimonos as models - the first being their own personal New Year's kimono, and then there was a shared yukata model for Hololive Summer that everyone got that doesn't have a tag. Unless we start making individual tags for the kimonos they receive in merch only, there is no need to give new_year a year. The exception to this two-kimono-model approach is Sora, but those kimonos were incredibly early in her career and are all lumped into her old design tag.

For the swimsuits meanwhile, not counting Marine and Koyori in their loungewearyness to avoid YouTube's ban hammer for a second, the only ones that have individual tags are the ones from Hololive Summer 2019 (ex. post #3599680), and most suggestions go with just giving the unnamed ones (hololive_summer_2019). Leaving out the "hololive" part might be good for the swimsuit designs that never made it in as models, like the ones I mentioned for 2020 for Noel and Matsuri.